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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last year I purchased a small group of adult Metriclima estherae "Minos Reef". About a month ago I stripped about 30 fry from the female. The problem is that they are all orange. What are the chances that they are all female? I'm thinking they are pretty slim. One possibility I can think of is that one or both of the parent fish carries a gene that produces only orange males but I don't know enough fish genetics to know if that is even possible. I'm kind of disapointed because I really like the blue males. Here's a couple of pics of the parents.

Here's my dominant male.



And here's mom.

 

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the chances are probably slim

I have the same issue with my blue male/ red females setup.

What I think is the blue male is a minos reef male while the red females may just be your typical hobby line of red zebra which will produce a varied type of fry.

Since all of your fry turned out red though, maybe you did in fact get lucky. my estherea fry seem to be more of a mix type sometimes coming out blotched.

My impression from common zebra keepers is that the blue males are almost undesirable in the aquarium,so this issue doesn't come up much in the forum.

I am with you the blue males are absolutely where it's at.

I also wonder if these estherea combinations are considered hybrid. Nice Looking fish by the way!!
 

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Hm...interesting. I love genetics, by the way.

Generally though, I thought the bluexred type of M. estherae was a recessive trait where the redxred is the dominant.

Though, out of that many fry, I can't believe you didn't get one blue baby :( I like the blues as well, you see.

I wouldn't count on them all being female though. The chances of that seem extremely slim. I would assume this is what happened:

The male carries the red and the blue gene.
The female (probably) carries the red and the red gene.

So, put them together and that's 3 reds to one blue--blue probably won't happen.

If the female carried both, you would have a chance at blue fry, but it's like people getting blue eyes--both parents have to give the blue gene, but since blue is recessive, this is rarer. More than likely you'll get one of each, a blue and a red, and blue will lose to the more dominant red gene.

Does that make any sense? It depends on your female, and I have NO idea how you'd know what she carries. I would just say sex unknown, and wait to vent for any kind of certainty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks for the replies. Some of the fry do have some small black splotches but not as much as your typical OB. The female is holding again so if all the fry are orange again I guess I'll try removing the father and letting my other male have a shot. I wouldn't mind having a mix of red and blue males but if they are all going to be orange I'll probably get rid of them and start over with fish from another source.
 

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Assuming the probability of an individual fry being female is 0.5 (i.e, a 50/50 coin flip), the probability that ALL 30 of your fry are female is 0.5^30 or about 1 in 1.07 billion. Safe enough to say that if all 30 do actually turn out to be female, then I'd question the assumption of the 50/50 male/female probability. There is likely something else going on, and I think the dominant/recessive point made above is a good one. Color and gender might not be related.
 

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The thing I don't get is if the Blue male and red females all came from the same collection point in this case Minos Reef, You would think the fry would resemble minos reef estherea fry.

Now from what I understand the Red male in Lake malawi is like 1% the poulation and the blotched poulation is 0.01%, that leaves 98.9% of the estherea males being blue.
I don't know what the comparison to Minos Reef would be though.

I guess all said and done even in the lake there is a chance of blue males producing red male fry,maybe in a tank environment the odds simply multiply.

Once again since it seems the blue male is less desired by hobbyists and thus there is less information how to tackle the issue of producing Blue Male fry.

Obviously a cherry red zebra who breeds with a wild caught Blue male would more than likely hurt your chances of Blue fry so I would definitely stick to fish from the same collection point if possible,i n a an effort to help shed light I will do the same and post pics any Blue fry they produce.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I ordered them from a local importer/distributor as minos reef estherae but have no way to verify if that's what they really are. He said he got them from an Eastern European breeder and I was very happy with the quality of the fish until they spawned. I stripped the female tonight and she was holding all orange fry so this group is going to be rehomed.

Also I was wondering what other peoples experiences were with aggression with these fish? Mine are downright nasty to each other and the other fish in the tank. I had to get rid of the original dominant male because he killed two females and almost killed the two males that I have now. I've kept the cherry red estherae in the past and they weren't half as mean as these guys.
 

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bossfish said:
I ordered them from a local importer/distributor as minos reef estherae but have no way to verify if that's what they really are. He said he got them from an Eastern European breeder and I was very happy with the quality of the fish until they spawned. I stripped the female tonight and she was holding all orange fry so this group is going to be rehomed.

Also I was wondering what other peoples experiences were with aggression with these fish? Mine are downright nasty to each other and the other fish in the tank. I had to get rid of the original dominant male because he killed two females and almost killed the two males that I have now. I've kept the cherry red estherae in the past and they weren't half as mean as these guys.
mine aren't as aggressive as most keepers'(lucky). My dominant Rusty is actually more aggressive than My dominant Estherea. I think generally they're classified somewhere in the middle aggression wise. more aggressive than Lab Careuleus,but not nearly as bad as Kenyi or Auratus
 
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