[hyposalinity]

My pair of CONS began their spawning ritual again, at the time they began courting/breeding the salinity was up to 1.006. I noticed the eggs when the salinity was 1.007, the eggs appear to be fertile, not white or coverred in fungus as of 1.008. I am going to raise it to 1.009 and stop at that, they should be hatching soon, if not already and I just don't see the fry yet. I'll let everyone know if the eggs hatched as soon as I see wigglers or free swimming babies. She has the eggs in a hollowed out spot in a piece of artificial driftwood, so I can't see them. The only reason I noticed them is because I removed all the deco to swap from a 20long to a 29gallon. I assumed she laid eggs because she hasn't moved from the wood for a while, I figured she was protecting eggs, and she was. Both parents still look great and eat like pigs. I'll post pics for proof. All salinity measurements were done with a refractometer too. There could very well be the possibilty of saltwater CONS in time through breeding in higher salinity water.

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

Not sure why you'd keep a freshwater fish in brackish conditions in the first place?

 

[Joels fish]

This is an interesting experiment, but like VOODOO CHILI I have to ask why ?

 

[hyposalinity]

go to this thread

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=171027

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

Okay, I checked out the thread but I still don't understand the point of it? There's absolutely no need for a con to live in brackish water, so I don't understand the need to "experiment" with how well they can tolerate living in foreign, and possibly harmful conditions. Just be cause we can do something doesn't mean we should. I'm sorry, but this borders on the edge of animal abuse, in my opinion; neglect at the very least.

 

[convictkid]

Okay, I checked out the thread but I still don't understand the point of it? There's absolutely no need for a con to live in brackish water, so I don't understand the need to "experiment" with how well they can tolerate living in foreign, and possibly harmful conditions. Just be cause we can do something doesn't mean we should. I'm sorry, but this borders on the edge of animal abuse, in my opinion; neglect at the very least.

The man or woman wants to rasie his cons in brakish water. If they seem to be doing fine I say don't question him and mind yourself. Im sure he didn't post this thread to try and start controversy. some people are so quick to jump on people here I swear.

 

[DirtyBlackSocks]

Was actually found a while back that Jack Dempsey's do better in brackish water even though they come from a fresh water environment...Ichy can get into a bit more detail on where the study came from, but the guy who wrote it was one of the foremost cichlid enthusiasts in the world.

Things that were measured were heart rate, appetite, growth rate, lifespan, metabolism, coloration, breeding behavior ect.

 

[gage]

im with Voodoo Chilli, why do this? pointless expriment IMO.

 

[Joels fish]

Not something I would try but as long as the OP goes about this carefully and with the fishes well being in mind then I cant see why not. Not like he/she is doing it with the intent to cause harm. I say no harm no foul.

 

[hyposalinity]

Animal abuse . . . how? The fish are living, eating, and breeding as they would in their natural environment. I have done much research on this subject before attempting it. There is already proof that they "could" thrive in brackish if not marine water conditions. I did not attempt this with no knowledge, and I did not introduce them into brackish or marine conditions right out of their natural habitat. This was slowly done over a 3 week time frame. If they will reproduce in low content salt water(1.009), then the babies will more than likely reproduce in brackish conditions (1.011). The fry from those parents could very well thrive in marine conditions (1.025). I did not put them in non-clorinated tap water with the intent to kill them knowing they would not survive. I put them in conditions I suspect they would tolerate, and they have, and have not changed their normal routine as they would conduct themselves in the wild. I provide them food, livable water conditions (with proof), etc. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite 20ppt nitrate, 78 degrees, and a pH of 8. I'm not the one buying feeder guppies of goldfish to feed to my large predatory fish, sure they eat small fish in the wild, but those prey fish have more room and cover to hide in than a home aquarium has to offer. Plus aquarium pets do not "need" live food to survive, most are captive bred and will accept dried food as a substitute.

 

[convictkid]

Im with you man I think its a cool experiment. Let me know your findings. I doubt they will live well if at all in marine conditions. But maybe if you kept slowly breeding them into it. Sounds cool.

 

[gage]

sue it is possible to keep them in marine, over a long time of "breeding them into it" but i wanna know what the point is of acclimating them to salt water, when you could just keep them in fresh?

 

[chrispyweld]

I wanna know what the point is of acclimating them to salt water, when you could just keep them in fresh?

Well how are irresponsible fish keepers going to over populate the ocean with cons if they can't make it out of the brackish deltas and into the great blue? Duh!!

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

I did not put them in non-clorinated tap water with the intent to kill them knowing they would not survive. I put them in conditions I suspect they would tolerate, and they have, and have not changed their normal routine as they would conduct themselves in the wild.

I get your point, but as I keep asking, WHY? Why place animals in conditions they can "tolerate"? Why not take it one step further and see if they can live in slightly chlorinated water? Or what happens if you consistently keep the water temperature above 87F? Maybe see how much red food coloring fish can stand in their aquarium water? I just don't see the purpose in your experiment, other than simply proving a point to yourself. Even if you decide convicts can tolerate brackish conditions, what will this discovery accomplish? I'm sorry, but fish deserve to be kept in optimal conditions and allowed to thrive in our care, not in conditions they can "tolerate". You could "tolerate" living in a smoke-filled six by six foot room, but that's not the healthiest of living conditions, is it?

And as far as "minding myself" goes, when one posts on the WORLD WIDE INTERNET, one should expect to hear opinions, agreeable to their own, or not.

 

[hyposalinity]

The point is to see if CONs can be bred at raised salinities to eventaully thrive in true marine conditions. There are Cichlid and Marine enthusiasts out there who appreciate both worlds, and probably would like to be able to house both together. With Cichlids, Damsels, Chromis, and Clowns being so closely related, it would be neat to have a tank full of Damsels and Cichlids. Damsels, especially the 3 and 4 stripe, Dominos etc are very aggressive, like Cichlids and can become troublesome in a reef tank, and many people have aggression problems with Cichlids. Damsels are getting cheaper, but CONs can be bought for a dollar and some change. Damsels are also very difficult to breed in captivity, CONs are very prolific in captivity. They could be a consideration for cycling a marine aquarium. Some people do so with Mollies and Guppies, but they usually get eaten by bigger saltfish if left in the aquarium. No doubt a CON or a pair of CONs could hold there own in a marine tank with Eels, Triggers, etc. But yes, personally I just want a tank with 3 stripe Damsels, Domino Damsels and marine converted CONs in it, maybe even a big Marroon Clown too. CONs and Damsels co-habitating in a 1.011 environment would probably be more likely. I am not shooting for marine CONS at the moment, just wanted to see if they could live and reproduce in brackish. Now onto transferring Damsels to Brackish.

 

[Joels fish]

I just want a tank with 3 stripe Damsels, Domino Damsels and marine converted CONs in it,

Now that would be an interesting tank! :lol: Ya know I think that If cons could be adapted to saltwater successfully the oceans would already be over run with them. :wink: opcorn:

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

You like cichlids and you like marine fish? Then you properly set up a tank for each.

You're torturing fish in the name of science because damsels are too expensive and you can't be bothered to net out a molly after it's helped cycle a tank?! Unbelievable.

 

[xalow]

In the other thread hyposalinity stated that at the first sign of distress the fish would slowly be acclimated back to their natural water parameters and the project abandoned. Several signs of distress are mentioned in one of the earlier posts by hyopsalinity including "lack of appetite, not breeding, physical appearance" given this, the idea that the fish are being tortured isn't one I really pick up on here. I would say that including regularly breeding as a sign of health allows for a fairly broad indicator of a health even though convicts breed regularly.

The point of this, if I am correct in my interpretations, is to maintain convicts and damsels in the same tank with the hope that convicts could be used as an effective way to cycle salt water tanks.

Voodoo Chilli's concerns are understandable because the goal of a cheap fish to cycle a salt water tank is a bit gratuitous given that mollies all ready can serve that function and simply be removed before other fish are introduced. This means the benefit seems to me more limited just to your goal of keeping damsels and convicts together.

I was wondering a few thing:

1.) Had you considered that convicts might be too aggressive for the Damsels?
I don't know much about SW but from what damsels I have seen in stores I don't think they if they cohabatited with convicts they would be able to withstand the convict's agression levels.

2.) Is the issue here acclimating fish to different conditions or breeding fish with the intend of creating a new variant more tolerant of these different conditions?
It doesn't seem clear to me what is the eventual plan but if it included a salt water convict I think it should be mentioned clearly that I don't think this is likely but if sucessful could be dangerous.

 

[OceanDevil]

Good luck with this. I have thought about it but it seems like a big hassle.

To all the nay-sayers... please calm down. This guy is not being cruel. Is it ok to use cons as feeders but not increase the salinity of their water? :lol:

 

[Shroob]

Good luck with this. I have thought about it but it seems like a big hassle.

To all the nay-sayers... please calm down. This guy is not being cruel. Is it ok to use cons as feeders but not increase the salinity of their water? :lol:

It could be cruel, making cons live in water they arn't suited for and I don't think anyone can be sure of the long term health affects. Some people think its ok to use cons for feeders because they are raised humanely, and die a quick death, putting them in water that they could be in pain or causing a long drawn out death is much worse in my opinion.