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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over the last few months I have had Red zebra and dem females hold on probably 10 separate occasions and have no fry to show for it. I have tried leaving the female in the main tank, removing her immediately to a 10 gal, and moving her after a few days, and have not had any luck. After about a week the holding female always has no eggs left. I understand they may struggle their first few times, but a couple of the females have held 3 or 4 times. Help me out here guys I'm 0 for 10!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have a 75 gal (48 x 18) with 6 acei, 6 red zebras, and 12 Dems. Stress was what I was thinking, but wouldn't that discourage them from breeding to begin with? I have had no stress-induced deaths, no hovering around filters or heaters, and no nipped fins except among three competing male dems.
 

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How big are the males of each species?
 

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Should be big enough. Maybe the RZ has to get a little more mature and the girls are "spawning" themselves. But a 3" demasoni should be OK.

If you suspect stress at all I would add fish. Stocking is a little light for a 75G with those species/numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have seen the dems spawning, but not the RZ's. I just know that when I see a large crater dug by the Male RZ, she will be holding soon. I have suspected this at the beginning, but I figured by now they are mature enough.

Stocking is a little light for a 75G with those species/numbers.
Where did you see my stocking numbers? Right now I have 11 Dems and 5 RZ's. Lost one RZ and all my Acei due to a major KH/PH drop a while back.

Depending on how long my PH had been on the low end (had never tested it until I found out it dropped :oops: ), could this have something to do with eggs going bad/ not being fertilized?
 

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bmweiler09 said:
I have a 75 gal (48 x 18) with 6 acei, 6 red zebras, and 12 Dems.
I don't think pH swings do permanent damage, just shock the fish a little while it is happening.

Can't think of anything if you are sure the males are males. As stated, females commonly lay eggs and pick them up on their own, only to spit a week later. But not so much with capable males in the tank IME.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
DJRansome said:
bmweiler09 said:
I have a 75 gal (48 x 18) with 6 acei, 6 red zebras, and 12 Dems.
WOW don't know why I forgot I said that haha, yes I did still have my full stock list when I was having these unsuccessful holds. What would you suggest I add to my tank now that I have 5 RZ's and 11 Dems?

Can't think of anything if you are sure the males are males. As stated, females commonly lay eggs and pick them up on their own, only to spit a week later. But not so much with capable males in the tank IME.
Yes like I said I've seen my Dems breeding so I know theres at least one male dem, and I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple male RZ's..

thats why I was thinking something with the water conditions. Unless its normal for a female to fail a few times before keeping full term? Also note that I've tried stripping and tumbling in my main tank a couple times, only to come home to a floating mass of rotten eggs.
 

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bmweiler09 said:
What would you suggest I add to my tank now that I have 5 RZ's and 11 Dems?
Maybe if you crowd the tank some more they will feel more comfortable? You could double both of them if you want just those two species.

bmweiler09 said:
I've seen my Dems breeding so I know theres at least one male dem, and I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple male RZ's.
Two females could do the circles together and be faking you out? The RZ males are easy because when mature they turn peach colored and lose the bright red of the females and juveniles. If you have multiple males RZs you might also try removing excess males.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Maybe if you crowd the tank some more they will feel more comfortable? You could double both of them if you want just those two species.
Hmm I figured the females would be more comfortable with less stocking. I would like to add one more species. How are your hara's doing with your dems? did the males ever color up?

Two females could do the circles together and be faking you out?
Pretty positive it was a male and female, saw eggs being dropped and picked up and the male was aggressively clearing out that side of the tank that whole time.

The RZ males are easy because when mature they turn peach colored and lose the bright red of the females and juveniles.
Is this always true regarding RZ's? I have one smaller RZ which has turned this peachy color with some blue tint in the fins and is extremely passive. All others remained rather orange. The only confirmed female is also one of the most aggressive fish in my tank.
 

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bmweiler09 said:
I figured the females would be more comfortable with less stocking. I would like to add one more species. How are your hara's doing with your dems? did the males ever color up?
Just tossing out things to try since currently you are not getting holds. The hara males are coloring up better, but selling 5 males that are already out of the tank and still have a bunch IN the tank. Just my least favorite species in the tank, and I really wanted to like them. :(

bmweiler09 said:
Is this always true regarding RZ's?
I think it's pretty unusual for a mature male to stay red-orange. Who knows though. Do your suspected red males have a blue glow on their fins? A flashlight helps to see this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just tossing out things to try since currently you are not getting holds.
Getting holds, just not successful ones. just wanted to make sure we're on the same page :p

The hara males are coloring up better, but selling 5 males that are already out of the tank and still have a bunch IN the tank. Just my least favorite species in the tank, and I really wanted to like them. Sad
Yes I would love to add them to my tank, but only if they colored up nicely. Every picture I see makes me more envious!

Do your suspected red males have a blue glow on their fins?
Yes I have seen this on the smaller "male" mentioned, and the suspected male in the morning low-sun hours before the lights come on. Also, for what its worth, the confirmed female is one of the two RZ's that doesn't have about 8 egg spots.

In your experience, have you had the best success leaving the female in the main tank while holding or removing her to a separate tank? The only thing I can think of is either I'm stressing out the female too much going through my half hour long rock/water removal to catch her; or the tank makes are, which I'm just not seeing.
 

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If you stress her during the net process she will spit immediately. If I am trying to salvage fry I remove the mom on day 18 unless she is being harassed. Usually if the hold is not going to be successful, she is going to spit in the tank (or swallow) before that...at around one week.

Seems to me the eggs are not getting fertilized.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
One week is when it usually happens. I can see her mouth gradually getting smaller until then.

I guess I'll just have to wait and give them a few more tries, then it may be time to switch up my stock a little.
 
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