How long has she been holding? She could be holding unfertilized eggs that will get spit out soon.
Unknown Father
I have a Yellow Lab which is holding eggs, which is great but I have a very young male Lab who is not helping the female in anyway and is really young. I only other males in the tank are a same size JD, a Kribensis and a Auratus who is staying by the female and is sort of chasing anything away from where she is.
Is the Auratus maybe the dad? What are your thoughts?
Is the Auratus maybe the dad? What are your thoughts?
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Mbuna males do not guard or "help" holding females in any way as some other species may (esp. many CA/SA cichlids).
The father could be the young lab, but most likely it's the dominant male in your tank (if he doesn't have enough females within his own species (though he might either way), he will venture out into others and hybridize).
I'd say the auratus is a likely father (as he is Mbuna). Cichlids from other lakes are less likely, but still possible. Just because the auratus is chasing away other fish doesn't mean he's the father though. All males tend to chase/abuse holding females.
If she swallows the eggs in a few days, they were unfertilized (or because she's new to holding and does so mistakenly or because of stress).
The father could be the young lab, but most likely it's the dominant male in your tank (if he doesn't have enough females within his own species (though he might either way), he will venture out into others and hybridize).
I'd say the auratus is a likely father (as he is Mbuna). Cichlids from other lakes are less likely, but still possible. Just because the auratus is chasing away other fish doesn't mean he's the father though. All males tend to chase/abuse holding females.
If she swallows the eggs in a few days, they were unfertilized (or because she's new to holding and does so mistakenly or because of stress).
She is holding one day so far. The dominant male is the Auratus. I did notice that the female chased the young Lab around the tank for the last couple days. He was added to the tank AFTER the female was there so maybe that had something to do with the chasing. How long does it take for the eggs to hatch and the fry done with the yok sack if they are fertilized?toume said:Mbuna males do not guard or "help" holding females in any way as some other species may (esp. many CA/SA cichlids).
The father could be the young lab, but most likely it's the dominant male in your tank (if he doesn't have enough females within his own species (though he might either way), he will venture out into others and hybridize).
I'd say the auratus is a likely father (as he is Mbuna). Cichlids from other lakes are less likely, but still possible. Just because the auratus is chasing away other fish doesn't mean he's the father though. All males tend to chase/abuse holding females.
If she swallows the eggs in a few days, they were unfertilized (or because she's new to holding and does so mistakenly or because of stress).
Will I have to take them out of the tank after that it's a 55 gal
The female would chase the male if she felt she was superior--higher up in the pecking order of all the fish in your tank (if she's bigger and been in the tank longer, she probably is). Once the male gets bigger than her, which he will eventually, he'll start chasing her and want to breed (if the dom fish--auratus--doesn't get in the way).
If you want to salvage the fry, take her out into a fry tank to spit, but expect them to be hybrids (it's not always obvious that they're hybrids).
You shouldn't honorably sell hybrids unless the person knows that is what they are. We want to preserve/protect the species, so if you want them, you should raise and keep them to enjoy for yourself.
If you don't want to keep them, you can let the female hold and naturally spit in the tank. However, IME, some will survive if they are enough hiding places (I have seen it in my own tank, though I didn't have clean-up bottom feeders like synos).
I remove my female from the main tank to a fry tank so she can hold and spit in peace (I don't like my female to get beaten up while holding, which happens frequently). Personally, I use my baby fry as feeders for my larger SA cichlids, GT, JD, Cons, etc. (because I expect hybrids too).
She could've been holding longer than a day (it's been a day since you've noticed)--it's fairly subtle at first (unless you saw the coupling).
You can strip the female (look in library under breeding) or let her spit naturally. Some females hold too long and get emaciated (since they don't eat at all). They'll hold for about 3 weeks. Usually when I remove the female to a fry tank, the female spits as soon as she can (when babies are free swimming). If she holds longer than 31 days, definitely strip her. If she gets too skinny, strip her. New moms don't always know what they're doing. It'll take at least 2 weeks to get free swimming babies.
If you want to salvage the fry, take her out into a fry tank to spit, but expect them to be hybrids (it's not always obvious that they're hybrids).
You shouldn't honorably sell hybrids unless the person knows that is what they are. We want to preserve/protect the species, so if you want them, you should raise and keep them to enjoy for yourself.
If you don't want to keep them, you can let the female hold and naturally spit in the tank. However, IME, some will survive if they are enough hiding places (I have seen it in my own tank, though I didn't have clean-up bottom feeders like synos).
I remove my female from the main tank to a fry tank so she can hold and spit in peace (I don't like my female to get beaten up while holding, which happens frequently). Personally, I use my baby fry as feeders for my larger SA cichlids, GT, JD, Cons, etc. (because I expect hybrids too).
She could've been holding longer than a day (it's been a day since you've noticed)--it's fairly subtle at first (unless you saw the coupling).
You can strip the female (look in library under breeding) or let her spit naturally. Some females hold too long and get emaciated (since they don't eat at all). They'll hold for about 3 weeks. Usually when I remove the female to a fry tank, the female spits as soon as she can (when babies are free swimming). If she holds longer than 31 days, definitely strip her. If she gets too skinny, strip her. New moms don't always know what they're doing. It'll take at least 2 weeks to get free swimming babies.
So you are telling me to strip the eggs BEFORE they hatch? I have made a egg tumbler already and can put them in there. But now tell me the eggs that I strip they will have NO yok sack, RIGHT? It's only been two days since she has eggs. I know because I went to bed late Monday night and Tue morning she had something in her mouth since. She has not eaten either. How long should I wait to take the eggs out now that you know all the info. Man it's going to be hard to catch her she is in a bad spot will have to rip the tank apart, any ideas on that?
Thanks for the info also
Thanks for the info also
What would you do with the fry if you were to raise them?
My suggestion is to just let her spit in the tank and "let nature take it's course."[/i]
My suggestion is to just let her spit in the tank and "let nature take it's course."[/i]
I agree with Kanorin. Don't raise them just wait until you are better prepared. Getting rid of fry is tough and getting rid of mutt fry is even harder. I know its hard to swallow but its the facts of fish keeping. You just can't keep them all its the responsible thing to do for the hobby.
You strip them after the Mom has been holding for two weeks approximately. It's easier to do when the fry are free swimming but you can do it earlier if you want. It's up to you--your fish.
This is my 1st time any fish of mind are having babies and I am thrilled. I will not give any out just for myself to watch. Anyway there is always the chance the other Lab is the father, so I'm going to wait and see. I just want to get this straight let her KEEP the eggs untill she spits them out and then strip them while she gathers them into another tank. Is that right? will they still have the yok shack on them? Will I need to use the egg tumbler while they have the egg sack on them still and when can they be taken out of the tumber? Thanks again
JDs and kribs are both substrate spawners and cannot breed with a mouthbrooder.
You can remove the mother around 18-21 days of holding. Put her in either a tank divided area or separate tank (5-10 gallons would do), and she'll spit when she is ready. No stripping involved and no egg sacks to worry about and no tumbling. Or, you could strip her anytime after two weeks. If you do this, they may have egg sacks and would need to be tumbled until gone. Either way, if you are keeping them you need another space for them away from the adults.
You won't be able to tell when the fry are spit or even when they grow up if they are pure or hybrids because hybrids can look exactly like either parent. And you are likely to have about 20 babies. You must have a lot of available tank space because it is an 8-year commitment. :thumb:
The only way I knew my hybrid fry WERE hybrid is that they were yellow (like mom, y lab) but striped (like the blue-barred dad). It wasn't just stress bars either--it was all the time.
It was obvious, but it not always is. For e.g. Red zebra and yellow labs, which often hybridize, are very hard to tell when they're small (and even when they're big sometimes). Vastly unusual aggression levels is a good indicator.
But if you want to keep them, keep them. They're your fish :wink: And if you want to get rid of them, make sure the new owner knows the possibility that they're hybrid.
It was obvious, but it not always is. For e.g. Red zebra and yellow labs, which often hybridize, are very hard to tell when they're small (and even when they're big sometimes). Vastly unusual aggression levels is a good indicator.
But if you want to keep them, keep them. They're your fish :wink: And if you want to get rid of them, make sure the new owner knows the possibility that they're hybrid.
Question, I once read somewhere that ALL yellow labs are hybrids...is that so? If it is, what is the harm in keeping them if they look like yellow labs?
Well I don't buy it that all yellow labs are hybrids. Maybe the person who said that was frustrated at the time. :thumb:
But there is no harm in keeping hybrids. It's just that many of us don't have tank space we want to devote to keeping 20 fry for 8 years. Or stated a different way...if I have a spare 55G I would rather have three new species than keep 20 hybrids of a fish I already have in another tank.
The harm would be in selling them or giving them away.
I learned the hard way that it is much easier to let nature take it's course with newly spit fry than to decide later I was not generous enough to maintain a hybrid retirement-home tank.
But there is no harm in keeping hybrids. It's just that many of us don't have tank space we want to devote to keeping 20 fry for 8 years. Or stated a different way...if I have a spare 55G I would rather have three new species than keep 20 hybrids of a fish I already have in another tank.
The harm would be in selling them or giving them away.
I learned the hard way that it is much easier to let nature take it's course with newly spit fry than to decide later I was not generous enough to maintain a hybrid retirement-home tank.
PortiaD
I have typed on this forum that all-yellow labs are hybrids. The dash makes the "all" apply only to the word "yellow". If someone (including me) forgot or mistyped the dash, then that might have led to some confusion. Sorry about that!
I have typed on this forum that all-yellow labs are hybrids. The dash makes the "all" apply only to the word "yellow". If someone (including me) forgot or mistyped the dash, then that might have led to some confusion. Sorry about that!
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