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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All the fish in my tank are flashing. I can see a fish flash about every 45-60 seconds.

My Acei's are the fish that are twitching bad. ( all 4 of them and only them which is very odd)Their bodies are banged up. They are facing the outlets swimming right up at the top. It's hard to tell if I can see fungus or anything with the scrapes.

I've been doing water changes all day.

75 gallon.

27 fish

PH 7.9

Temp 79

Ammonia 0

Nitrites 0

Nitrates between 0 and 5. PPm

My Acies are in the worst shape. Their fins are clamped too. If one doesn't die tonight I'll be surprised. My 10 gallon has some juvies in it so removing the Acei for tonight is out of the question.

I can't really see anything on the fish, fungus, colors...etc. I can see a few small specs on some fish, can't tell if they are bubbles or itch.

I've been helping my brother move the last few days and haven't had much time to do anything besides feed them and run out the door.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Somethings that I've done with the tank lately that could of caused this.

1 Added a yellow lab, had it in the 10 gal for a week, showed no signs of sickness.

2 Added filter pads for polishing. I've been rinsing them instead of replacing with new ones.

3 Removed HOB and added old Fluval. I cleaned it very well and this was 3 weeks ago.

4 Used flake food, about 2 times, that had been sitting for awhile. It clouded up my tank with so many food particles that I stopped using it.

THANKS FOR ANY HELP.

Another thing that's odd about the Acei's, besides only them twitching, they are schooling. They never really schooled before. I heard they were schooling fish but my four never did, maybe one would follow one other, that's it. Now that they are sick all four of them are sticking so close to each other. That just struck me as unusual.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This morning update. The Acei's are still the same, swimming in top water, mostly in front of the return. One of them at times is down swimming normally with the other fish.

Haven't seen much flashing from the other fish yet, still no signs of Ich. I will be doing 15 gallon water changes every few hours ( I guess the only benefit of me being unemployed at the moment) and seeing how things go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
MONDAY AFTERNOON UPDATE: Everything is the same. I did an almost 50% WC this morning. All 4 Acei's still swimming in the top water return current. They seem to be twitching a little bit less. Flashing is still going on in the tank although a little less frequent. I have the lights off.

I had my mother stop by to look at the fish, I'm colorblind, and she said she didn't see anything that looked like a grey or whitish film on their scales. So I don't know about fungus. She said she thought she saw a tiny bit of brown near one fishes gills.

**EDIT** I looked up the symptoms of Velvet and then asked my mother if she saw any rust or gold colored anywhere and she said that she saw brown around the gills on a couple of them, very faint. (this is for the Aceis only)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I had someone look at the Acei again and they said one of them has red, rust colored pec fins, while the other 3 didn't.

Since I can't edit my own posts I wont post again till someone responds that way they wont get a headache reading all of this.
 

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It sounds like your fish may have velvet. The best way to tell is to darken the room and turn off the tank lights and look at the fish from above or below with a flashlight.

The sheen is usually a greenish gold, and can be seen easily by doing it this way.

There are several products availalble for treating velvet.

Good luck!

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the input!

Velvet was my guess too. We did the flashlight in the dark room(saw you recommend this in another thread), and we think we see the colors associated with velvet. It's a little hard to say for sure.

I will get everyone together and see if we see a greenish gold.

Am I looking for a Velvet only medication? None of the Maracyns are good for velvet?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I am treating the tank with Coppersafe from Maradel.

The instructions said that I should also use Maracyn and Maracyn two to prevent secondary infections.

Would anyone recommend that?

And what can I expect from this medication in terms of time it takes to work? If everything goes ok.
 

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I've never dealt with velvet in my tank, so I don't know whether it's necessary to use the extra meds or not.

Keep in mind that Mardel makes all 3 of them, so it could just be a marketing tactic.

I would say it would depend on how long the fish are sick before you instigate proper treatment whether they are at risk for secondary infections or not.

With that being said, I've never had great success treating anything with Coppersafe, and find it to be a very slow if somewhat ineffective treatment. You will need to replace what you remove with water changes.

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Interesting.

Would you know of any other brand of velvet medicine that you've heard other people have success with?
 

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I know that some of the antibiotics are recommended for treating velvet, but I'm still at work and can't remember which ones work well.

Kim
 

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http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... ght=velvet

EHryan,
the above link has a fair amount of info on Velvet. (Both tak and TheSonOfDarwin are former moderators here). I'll just warn you that SonofDarwin had an unusually resistant strain of Velvet so in reading some of his accounts don't get discouraged! He tried everything and nothing seemed to work but most people do have success in treating Velvet. Check out the picture links he posted as they may help you determine if your fish does indeed have velvet. He had a hard time deciding whether or not it was Velvet and what seemed to help is taking flash pictures. The rust-colored talc-like film showed up in the pictures better than just looking at the fish.

Once you determine if this is Velvet I would make a list of some of the suggested drugs in the above link and then go to the fish store and read package labels to find something that has the recommended ingredients. I'd go heavy on the water changes and gravel siphonings--daily 30-40% if you can work it around your medication schedule.

I think one of the most important things to recognize about Velvet is that you need to treat intermitantly for a long time. The parasite has a tricky life cycle so you've got to catch it when it's not resistant to meds.

Please post back with any additional information and questions.

Robin
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That's funny I just got done reading that thread after doing a search about twenty minutes ago. I'll go through it again.

I went to a small LFS that specializes in only fish and the guy there recommended SeaCure Copper Treatment by Aquarium systems. However I went through the box and directions and it deals with marine and never mentions if it is or isn't safe for freshwater. I told the guy that I had cichlids so it must be. And they have always been very knowledgeable and helpful.

I'm still about 90% sure it's velvet. I can see that gold (I'm colorblind but to me it looks gold) sparkle coating on two of the Acei's and one Pearlmut.

Whatever it is it originally only hit my Acei's hard. They have been the only fish to swim right in front of the filter return. One of the Acei's, the one in worst shape, had about 40% of its pec fins missing.

But there is still some flashing going on with about half of the other fish, and it's a semi violent flash too. Thanks for the input.

For meds I have Maracyn 1 an 2. Should I use both?
 

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wow.. i must have the same thing..

my acei's are swimming at the top and look bad. i think i might lose them

i have yellow labs in the tank and they all look good and well.. just my two aceis
 

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For meds I have Maracyn 1 an 2. Should I use both?
I'm in no position to advise against anything Mardel suggests however IMO I don't think you should or need to treat with an antibiotic. Secondary infections are a concern and some of them can kill your fish alot faster then the Velvet, but for now I'd just go after the parasites and watch for signs of infection. Fuzzy, white or gray growth anywhere on the fish or red open sores can indicate infection.

That's good to have the Maracyns on hand though. I just hate to bombard fish with too many meds at once. The meds are helpful but they also add to the fish's overall stress. It's kind of a fine line sometimes between helping and hindering, IMO.
I'd check with Mardel about using any of their products along with some other manufacturer's products. They may not be compatible.

Robin
 

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I just did a quick search on Aquarium Systems SeaCure Copper and I couldn't find anything that said it was for use in fresh water tanks.
I think I'd hold off on using it until you know for sure. The ingredients may be what you need but often the dosing between salt and fresh is different.

Perhaps someone who has used this particular product can comment? Or can anyone find Aquarium System's web site? I looked but failed to find it.

Robin
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Robin said:
For meds I have Maracyn 1 an 2. Should I use both?
I'm in no position to advise against anything Mardel suggests however IMO I don't think you should or need to treat with an antibiotic. Secondary infections are a concern and some of them can kill your fish alot faster then the Velvet, but for now I'd just go after the parasites and watch for signs of infection. Fuzzy, white or gray growth anywhere on the fish or red open sores can indicate infection.

That's good to have the Maracyns on hand though. I just hate to bombard fish with too many meds at once. The meds are helpful but they also add to the fish's overall stress. It's kind of a fine line sometimes between helping and hindering, IMO.
I'd check with Mardel about using any of their products along with some other manufacturer's products. They may not be compatible.

Robin
Ok here's what I think I will do.

I do have the Mardel CopperSafe in the tank(2 days now). But since I've been hearing that it's not that strong tomorrow I will find out if that SeaCure I was recommended today is safe for fresh water( I have their number). If it is I will do two big water changes tomorrow and use the SeaCure Copper Treatment instead.

And one question. What is the twitching that I am seeing? I can understand the flashing but not the twitching. When I say twitching I mean quick shakes without rubbing against the sand or rocks. Like my Acei's. I hear a lot of "plops" as they are breaking the water surface with their twitching.

I just noticed that my dominant Hongi did some twitching too. Sheesh this is starting to stress me out. Thanks for your help today. Much appreciated!
 

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It may be that whatever is going on with them is both internal and external. IMO, the twitching is due to an itch they can't scratch by flashing. At times it almost seems neurological, and I'm really starting to wonder if you might be dealing with Columnaris instead of velvet...

I think I would lower the tank temp to 76, and begin treating with the Maracyn and Maracyn II together, just to be on the safe side.

As I said, I've never dealt with velvet, but this sounds pretty severe, and I think time is going to be of the essense in getting the proper treatment started. This way, you can cover all your bases and maintain the Coppersafe in the tank along with these two meds.

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Wednesday update.

I actually added the Maracyn 1 and 2 last night. I tried to spend some time away from the tank but I couldn't and just figured since I had it I'd use it. (Columnaris I hope not. Still don't see any fungus on their bodies)

The $$ for the med dosage in a 75 gal is expensive and I'm thinking if maybe I should buy a 10 gallon hospital tank and remove the Acei's.

But I don't know because the other fish, while flashing (which is getting less frequent with them) and a even less frequent twitch or two they are all nowhere near as bad of shape of my Acei's, who are still hanging out in the return current and top water and are covered in scrapes from their violent twitching and flashing.

I'm also waiting for a call back from SeaCure about if their product is safe for freshwater. Il eft them a message and no answer on two calls.

I'm confused as what to do.
 

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I don't doubt that you're confused, EHryan. It's very hard to know what is going on with these fish without a qualified veterinarians input.

I don't know if it is velvet or Columnaris, I could tell if I could see them in person, but I can't. Using the meds we've advised together will cover all your bases.

But, the main tank is going to need treating, either way.

Kim
 
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