I currently have 34 Ikola tropheus F1 about 1.25 inches. This is my third colony of tropheus (different tanks). I am having a custom built 180 gallon acrylic show tank built (72x24x24). I plan on putting the Ikola is the tank. I am also considering 15 or so demansoni in the 180 with the tropheus. Any thoughts on whether this would be a good mix. Diets are the same but demonsoni's can be pretty mean. However, this would be a great contrast in species.
Tropheus Ikola and Demasoni
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I kept 20 Pseudotropheus saulosi with about 20 Tropheus Kasanga and a few dubs in a 240g for quite some time. (About 5 years)
saulosi were very much the under achievers in the tank breeding wise (but that may be because they were low quality stock from a LFS) but they survived OK.
I see nothing hopeless about the mix of very differently coloured Tropheus with Mbuna provided the Tank is big enough.
There is very little interaction between them so each group I think has to be big enough (and sex ratio right) to be OK ignoring the other.
Its odd that folk are against mixing lakes when most of us happily combine fish from the South of Lake tang with the North without a second thought. Distance and habitat is prob just as great.
saulosi were very much the under achievers in the tank breeding wise (but that may be because they were low quality stock from a LFS) but they survived OK.
I see nothing hopeless about the mix of very differently coloured Tropheus with Mbuna provided the Tank is big enough.
There is very little interaction between them so each group I think has to be big enough (and sex ratio right) to be OK ignoring the other.
Its odd that folk are against mixing lakes when most of us happily combine fish from the South of Lake tang with the North without a second thought. Distance and habitat is prob just as great.
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Oops double post.
I see no problem with mixing Rift Lake cichlids especially if diets are the same. In fact - with NLS - almost anything goes now. I have buddies that have Fronts, Haps, Mbuna, Victorians and Trophs together in one tank.
If the tank is a show tank - then that means breeding is at the lowest priority if it even is a priority at all.
Go for it!
It is almost religiosity to not mix lakes - a type of ultra orthodoxy in fish keeping.
My rule - it's your tank - do what you want with it - if you asked the fish where would they rather be - they would answer the lake roaming free. To think that a biotope is somehow convincing the fish that they are just as good as being home is a brainwashing of one's own mind.
Don't mean to be so analytical about it but it rattles me.
If the tank is a show tank - then that means breeding is at the lowest priority if it even is a priority at all.
Go for it!
It is almost religiosity to not mix lakes - a type of ultra orthodoxy in fish keeping.
My rule - it's your tank - do what you want with it - if you asked the fish where would they rather be - they would answer the lake roaming free. To think that a biotope is somehow convincing the fish that they are just as good as being home is a brainwashing of one's own mind.
Don't mean to be so analytical about it but it rattles me.
It's not about religion when we're not mixing lakes, there's good reasons for that:
Mbunas are way more active fish than the finicky Tropheus. They will continuously outrun them for food and space.
Tropheus and Mbuna diet might be similar, but the feeding behaviour is absolutely different, excepting a few of the Mbunas (Labeotropheus species, Tropheops) that might have similar feeding patterns. The dentition of a Tropheus helps them maximize the amount of algae they rake from the rocks and excepting a couple troublemaking males, they usually hang out together and don't spend a lot of time moving around. The Tropheus pretty much try grazing all the time quietly while the Mbunas are very adapt to pursue open water nutrients and their mouths help them in doing so as well, as their frontal facing mouth have dentition that help them maximize the amount of nutrients they can catch in the open water column and they are fast, very fast ...would you agree with me? Not to mention the nipping abilities of an Mbuna's mouth are very well recognized.
For me, mixing different biotope species is not the best idea. At the moment I only have one tank left, but saying that you mix varients from different sides of the lake is not the same with mixing with fish from different lakes. I am not going into water chemistry (which is normally only relevant if you're keeping wild caught stock) ...bottom line is, Tropheus should be the dominant fish into one's setup and could be mixed with other, smaller fish that cannot damage them, or stress them. Tropheus bloat is very well known to wipe out entire colonies and the active Mbunas would just add to the inter-specie stress and increase the risks of one's colony getting sick.
Again, I wouldn't mix the Tropheus with other more active, or more dominant fish.
Mbunas are way more active fish than the finicky Tropheus. They will continuously outrun them for food and space.
Tropheus and Mbuna diet might be similar, but the feeding behaviour is absolutely different, excepting a few of the Mbunas (Labeotropheus species, Tropheops) that might have similar feeding patterns. The dentition of a Tropheus helps them maximize the amount of algae they rake from the rocks and excepting a couple troublemaking males, they usually hang out together and don't spend a lot of time moving around. The Tropheus pretty much try grazing all the time quietly while the Mbunas are very adapt to pursue open water nutrients and their mouths help them in doing so as well, as their frontal facing mouth have dentition that help them maximize the amount of nutrients they can catch in the open water column and they are fast, very fast ...would you agree with me? Not to mention the nipping abilities of an Mbuna's mouth are very well recognized.
For me, mixing different biotope species is not the best idea. At the moment I only have one tank left, but saying that you mix varients from different sides of the lake is not the same with mixing with fish from different lakes. I am not going into water chemistry (which is normally only relevant if you're keeping wild caught stock) ...bottom line is, Tropheus should be the dominant fish into one's setup and could be mixed with other, smaller fish that cannot damage them, or stress them. Tropheus bloat is very well known to wipe out entire colonies and the active Mbunas would just add to the inter-specie stress and increase the risks of one's colony getting sick.
Again, I wouldn't mix the Tropheus with other more active, or more dominant fish.
I strongly disagree with this, but to each their own... Tropheus a active as **** and more dominate than any mbuna. (They are built for fighting) This is my experience from back when I did NOT know any better than to mix lakes... Stick with Tanganyikans. :wink:Xenomorph said:
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I think it would work if the tank is big enough. The two groups would likely ignore each other (if the tank is big enough) I keep labs with tropheus and the only complaint i have is that its difficult to make sure the labs are fed without over feeding the tropheus. With demasoni you wouldn't really have a problem with that, as they eat a lot better than the labs.
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I've done this in the past and it worked fine.
Now it's just a personal choice of mine not to mix them.
6 foot by 2 foot tank worked out for me.
Now it's just a personal choice of mine not to mix them.
6 foot by 2 foot tank worked out for me.
I used to mix stuff before, but no more. Why, based on solid observation of behaviour and damage, yes damage. Mbuna frontal mouth position and dentition development allows them to nip very well. Demasoni, Metriaclima species, Melanochromis ...are just a few that would stress too much the Tropheus.flashg said:
I won't disagree that Tropheus are very active ...but still, the inner ranking stress within one's colony is enough. Mixing two tropheus varients I am down with that. Mixing with Malawi Mbunas ...big no for me.
Good luck.
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I would agree mixing Mbuna and Troph is about parallel with mixing more than one type of Troph. It is a bit more difficult than keeping one type of Troph.
Its not that hard though that it can not be recommended to many cichlid keepers, I think, as long as the Troph are the dominant fish. (In my experience you do not have to work at this as it happens anyway)
The increase in stress is a good argument but in practice I found it very small with the species I kept. I would say less stressful to the Troph than a more males than females sex mix or too many rocks.
If I can do it successfully for 5 years probably anyone can. :wink:
Its not that hard though that it can not be recommended to many cichlid keepers, I think, as long as the Troph are the dominant fish. (In my experience you do not have to work at this as it happens anyway)
The increase in stress is a good argument but in practice I found it very small with the species I kept. I would say less stressful to the Troph than a more males than females sex mix or too many rocks.
If I can do it successfully for 5 years probably anyone can. :wink:
I have some Kaizer II Tropheus with a group of Demasoni in a 135G tank. Both are spawning. No deaths that I know of since they have been together....roughly a year. Both eat Veggie flake and that is about it besides some zuchini and peas. Both very happy. I have 3-6 Demasoni holding at all times. The Tropheus are young yet, but I have stripped females a half dozen times now. No bloat, no unhappy fishies! It can be done easily. Both are very busy species that don't seem to bother one another. Blue and yellow make for a great pairing too.
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