[Mbuna freak]

Hello all, I'm wondering when is a good point to act. I'm getting worried about 1 of my yellow labs. I have 4 of them in a 55 gal with 2 OB zebras and 2 juvie socolofis, I want to get to the point here. How much is too much? My dominant yellow lab about 3" will chase and nip at one of my other ones. I believe it is a male as well, I woke up this morning to him hiding in the corner of the tank and some of his fins areally pretty torn up. Which of the 2 would you recommend removing? I'm thinking of pulling the stressed one and get him all fixed up. But where do I go from there?

 

[Cyphro]

Don't pull him out unless his lips get ripped off or he can't swim. A yellow lab (if you can find one that is not hybridized or weak) can be very tough in spite of what people say, but they are not a mean fish but rather territorial - there is a big difference. So this guy should be easy to manage by adding more cover to break up the line of sight in the tank.

If you pull him out what happens is you add him in and he is the odd man out, and the problem is even worse, and if he got injured bad and recovered then he will also try to get revenge on the one who hurt him, ie to kill him if possible.

If you have to do something to one of them now, put the aggressor in a jar with a net around the top for a few days to cool him down a bit.

 

[DJRansome]

Aquascape can help. But I would add more fish instead or as well. You need more socolofi and more OBs. Shoot for five of each species after removing extra males. The overcrowding is key to managing aggression.

 

[Mbuna freak]

Yeah I know I need more socolofi and OBs. I picked up a bunch more river rock yesterday and got it clean. I'm thinking there was a scuffle between the 2 that night he doesn't seem any more beat up that he was. I've just been waiting on some extra cash coming in so I can get more socolofi and OB from someone online instead of my LFS

 

[DJRansome]

In the meantime, yes I would isolate the beat up fish so he can heal since you can't remedy the problem immediately.

 

[Mbuna freak]

I made that decision earlier today DJ. I did notice his belly is a bit "sunken" in and he was really striped, overall not looking too happy. He has always ate just as much as the other fish I'm thinking there's something going on with his health

 

[DJRansome]

Being harassed is the #1 cause of illness IME.

 

[wryan]

Hello all, I'm wondering when is a good point to act. I'm getting worried about 1 of my yellow labs. I have 4 of them in a 55 gal with 2 OB zebras and 2 juvie socolofis, I want to get to the point here. How much is too much? My dominant yellow lab about 3" will chase and nip at one of my other ones. I believe it is a male as well, I woke up this morning to him hiding in the corner of the tank and some of his fins areally pretty torn up. Which of the 2 would you recommend removing? I'm thinking of pulling the stressed one and get him all fixed up. But where do I go from there?

What temperature is the tank being kept at ?

If you are still having problems after trying the other suggestions, you could probably lower the tank temperature a little - over a period of several days so as not to shock the fish.

It will reduce their metabolism and likely the aggression as well.

 

[Mbuna freak]

Wryan tank is at 78 degrees

 

[wryan]

Wryan tank is at 78 degrees

I'd start by rolling it back to 76F and see if that does anything.

If you have still have a problem then try dropping it to 74F and see what that gets you.

Needless to say this needs to be done over a period of several days (3 - 4 ... or more)

The following is from an article by Marc Elieson on an another website:

"The optimal temperature is 74 - 78 F. I keep my tank at a constant 76 F. I never have to worry about my temperature fluctuating, be it winter or summer. This is in part due to the very large water to air ratio (which helps to cool it off), and more importantly, three submersible pumps (which heat the water slightly). I don't use heaters on my fry or grow-out tank, and so the temp is naturally a little lower (74 F), however, I know of people who aim for temperatures of 80 F or even 82 F with their fry tanks. This brings me to my next point.

High temperatures will increase a fish's metabolism, boost their immune response, as well as stimulate aggression. So, by raising the temperature to 80 F for a fry tank, one would speed up their metabolism, causing them to eat more and grow faster, but also require more water changes. Conversely, you could lower the temperature in your tank as a means of stemming aggression. This can be helpful if you have some really nasty fish on your hands (e.g., Melanochromis auratus, Pseudotropheus lombardoi "Kenyi"). This is due to the fact that the number one cause of aggression among Cichlids is food related. If they are not feeling a need to eat as often (because their metabolism has slowed), then they are less likely to be territorial and feisty"

Source: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/afcichlids_setup.html

The following is from perhaps a later version (or earlier ?) of that same article here in the Library under Aquarium Setup - compare and note the differences in temps between the two:

"The optimal temperature is 76 - 80°F. I keep my tank at a constant 78°F. I never have to worry about my temperature fluctuating, be it winter or summer. This is in part due to the very large water to air ratio (which helps to cool it off), and more importantly, three submersible pumps (which heat the water slightly). I don't use heaters on my fry or grow-out tank, and so the temp is naturally a little lower (76°F), however, I know of people who aim for temperatures of 80°F or even 82°F with their fry tanks. This brings me to my next point.

High temperatures will increase a fish's metabolism, boost their immune response, as well as stimulate aggression. So, by raising the temperature to 80°F for a fry tank, one would speed up their metabolism, causing them to eat more and grow faster, but also require more water changes. Conversely, you could lower the temperature in your tank as a means of stemming aggression. This can be helpful if you have some really nasty fish on your hands (e.g., Melanochromis auratus, Metriaclima lombardoi "Kenyi"). This is due to the fact that the number one cause of aggression among Cichlids is food-related. If they are not feeling a need to eat as often (because their metabolism has slowed), then they are less likely to be territorial and feisty.

 

[Cyphro]

Lowering the temp to decrease aggression in FRY? LOL that guy is seriously on crack, I have never heard such nonsense. You can have hundreds of auratus and socolofi and red top zebra fry in a tank and you will not have a single loss from aggression. Even with juvies in with the fry you are not going to need to worry much. Even if you don't take them out of the main tank at all a surprising number manage to survive.

Since it is very hot here my tanks are always around 78 even though I don't use heaters, and this has never been a problem. The biggest concern with a heater in a small tank is accidentally boiling the occupants, another reason I don't use them any more since they all malfunction eventually.

I wouldn't lower the temp too much in any case, too cold or too hot and you are just begging for disease. 76-78 is a safe range. A couple degrees in either direction is fine too but I would not go beyond that unless that's needed for some kind of treatment or something.

 

[wryan]

Lowering the temp to decrease aggression in FRY? LOL that guy is seriously on crack, I have never heard such nonsense.

Well, bless your heart !

It's pretty simple concept overall to understand ... why, I'd bet even someone from 'Merrica could grasp it :

Fish = cold-blooded

Cold-blooded = no ability to self-regulate body temperature.

Body temperature = rate of metabolism and level of activity

Lower temps = decreased metabolism/activity and higher temps = increased metabolism/activity.

Higher metabolism and increased activity = greater need for food to sustain it.

Greater need for food = increased competition for it.

Increased competition for food = increased aggression.

You can have hundreds of auratus and socolofi and red top zebra fry in a tank and you will not have a single loss from aggression.

Increased numbers of individuals = aggression being spread over greater number of targets ... so that wouldn't be terribly surprising.

Even with juvies in with the fry you are not going to need to worry much. Even if you don't take them out of the main tank at all a surprising number manage to survive.

Well alrighty then ... :thumb:

Since it is very hot here my tanks are always around 78 even though I don't use heaters, and this has never been a problem.

You have no aggression issues whatsoever in your tanks ?

That makes you a very "special" individual indeed ...

The biggest concern with a heater in a small tank is accidentally boiling the occupants, another reason I don't use them any more since they all malfunction eventually.

I wouldn't lower the temp too much in any case, too cold or too hot and you are just begging for disease. 76-78 is a safe range. A couple degrees in either direction is fine too but I would not go beyond that unless that's needed for some kind of treatment or something.

Thanks for sharing your insights/opinions ... :thumb: