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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
At first I thought it was just because he is the subdom male, but within the past 2 days I'm not so sure anymore.

Symptoms:

Lethargic, white-ish areas over his body...not raised nor cotton like, just white-ish. His tail fin is clamped completely but he is still eating and nobody else in the tank is experiencing these issues.

Tested on Sunday before a 20% water change.

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10 ppm

This is a planted tank that has been setup for 3 weeks, like I mentioned before no other tank mate it displaying signs of this. The female agassizii is doing very well and the pair of cacatuoides are happy as clams as well. Both pairs of Apisto came from the same place and were one of the first fish in the tank and were introduced at the same time.
 

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Did these fish go through the cycle of the tank?

Can you possibly post a pic of the affected fish?

Do you have a hospital tank?

If so, I would pull him and place him in QT until you know for sure what is going on with him. Do daily water changes and add some Melafix preventatively.

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The tank was already cycled before adding any fish.

I'll try to get a pic tonight of him...he hides in his cave and next to the gravel (which is black) so it's hard to see him.

Picking up a hospital tank on Thursday (craigslist special!)

I've gone through the library and can't seem to find anything. Heck I have 4 Blue Rams in this tank (and I've heard horror stories on how difficult they can be to keep) and they're doing swimmingly!
 

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I've had fish that just appeared to be "scraped" (for lack of a better word) for no apparent reason.

If it's fuzzy or cottony looking, I would be suspicious of a bacterial or fungal infection. If it's not, then I would focus on pristine water conditions and add some Melafix. If you don't see any improvements in a couple of days, you might want to treat with some sulfa based antibiotics just to be on the safe side.

How many males and females do you have of this species?

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
1m 1f of each, bought them as paired fish from a really good online breeder (not sure if I can mention names in this section).

Yeah, it's not cotton or fuzzy just white-ish...and he's eating, not really swimming around.

As for the Melafix, I should wait til Thursday/when I get my hospital tank? Or is it mellow enough to use on the entire tank?
 

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It won't hurt to use it on the whole tank, but I've never used it on a planted tank before. I don't see how it could be a problem, it's basically tea tree oil.

Have you noticed any aggression between the two males?

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I tried to get a picture last night...no go.

He was moving around a bit more then usual...good sign.

Aggression wise it's kind of silly if you ask me...I guess I am use to my Mbuna tank. But the dominant male will chase...never gets in contact when I watch them. However the Dominant male recognizes his territory and has yet from what I've seen crossed into it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The Apisto died this morning...that wasn't a shock...what was however was the BN pleco who was also dead :(

The BN was my favorite fish hands down, when she ever was visible I would always stop what I was doing and watch her, I'm at a real loss with her.

Now, to find out what she died of.

This morning she was RIGHT next to the dead Apisto...so maybe she was munching on the corpse and whatever he had killed her right away because she was digesting him?

Here are the water parameters of that tank.

PH: 7.6
NH3/NH4: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 5 < x < 10

The only thing that was added to the tank was on Wednesday I added some Java Moss, and last night I moved things around a bit in the tank. I did see my BN last night as she was hanging out on the filter while I did this and she looked normal.

Another thing is that I did do a 10% water change last night, used dechlor and nothing was out of the ordinary.

So I guess the question is, if my BN pleco munched on a dead sick Apisto would she then die within a matter of hours? Is that even possible?
 

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I don't think the BN would have died that quickly, but not knowing what was wrong with the Apisto, it's impossible to say.

How are the other fish?

How did you cycle the tank? Were the fish used to cycle it?

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Other fish appear normal, but so did the BN Pleco last night :( .

Tank Cycle was I used 2 pre-seeded filters from my other 55 Gallon tank.

Filter #1 was on my Mbuna tank for 4-6 Weeks
Filter #2 was on my Mbuna tank for 4-6 Weeks
Filter #3 was on my Mbuna tank for 1-2 Weeks
Filter #4 was on my Mbuna tank for 1-2 Weeks

I took over Filter # 2 & 4 to this new tank and added the two schools of tetra right away. About a week later I added my BN plec and a few days after that is when I got my Apisto order in.

This tank has been setup for 3-4 weeks I want to say?

And I don't think she would have died that quickly either, but it's odd that she was RIGHT next to the agassizii in death ya know? I mean a 55 gallon tank is a big place for a 2 inch BN plec and to die right next to the corpse of the infected fish has to be more then an accident.
 

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My main concern right now would be that the Apisto had something like Columnaris, which can be deadly if it goes internal. But even at that, I can't imagine it moving that fast.

Good job on the cycle process! I can't imagine that having anything to do with what is going on.

This is what I would do...

Since it's a relatively new (although well cycled) tank, I would just keep a very close eye on things. BUT...I would have some antibiotics ready, just in case. Maracyn and Maracyn II would be my choice, but I am just hesitant to have you add them too quickly because they will screw up your tank somewhat...Maracyn II makes the water really cloudy, but if it's Columnaris, you will need both to prevent secondary infections.

The fish are new, so it's hard to relate it to problems from changes or illness.

And, with the plants all being relatively new to the tank, I'm not sure what the antibiotics would do to their establishment in the tank. (I can't keep a planted tank if my life depends on it, so I'm no help there... :wink: )

So what I'm saying is that I'd be ready to treat, but would hold off and make sure it was absolutely necessary.

Kim
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks Kim...it's just weird as heck ya know?

I saw my BN plec last night as I was moving things around, I saw her afterwards, she was normal and doing her thing.

I knew my Apisto's days were numbered as I couldn't get my hospital tank cycled fast enough...losing 1 fish out of 110 gallons of total water isn't bad right?

However the plec was a huge loss for me.

Also, I have 3 loaches in this tank, I always heard that they would be the first ones to get anything if something was floating around in the tank...is that true? Because they're all fine.

And the plants are doing great, new buds so I must be doing something right with those :wink:

Also if it was Columnaris would that spread to other fish in a weeks time? It's been a week give or take since this Apisto has been going down hill and no other fish in the tank are showing signs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·


Ok, this is a terrible diagram of the death scene.

The thick lines are the tank boarders, it's a standard 55 gallon 4 ft tank.

The square inside next to the corner is a rock, the red oval is where I found the BN Plec body, the blue oval is where I found my Apisto's body.
 

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I've only experienced Columnaris in my tank once. (And believe me, that's enough!) I started out with one species (strange, I know) showing signs of it, and it seemed like every week, another species would come down with it.

There are two different kinds...One is internal (deadly and very fast spreading) and the other is external (equally deadly, but moves a bit slower). Of course, there is no way to know if they have both.

Sounds like your plants have taken hold well enough to treat if you have to.

Kim
 
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