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Sure. Make the parameters match your main tank. Are you OK with the fish digging up or eating the plants as they mature? What will you do with the fry?

I assume you will remove the tetras, rasboras and shrimp?
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
DJRansome said:
Sure. Make the parameters match your main tank. Are you OK with the fish digging up or eating the plants as they mature? What will you do with the fry?

I assume you will remove the tetras, rasboras and shrimp?
I don't care if they destroy the plants. One of my reasons for getting into the mbuna hobby in the first place was because I wanted to get out of the live plant hobby. The tetras and rasboras are the remnant survivors of a planted 55g that I had running for a long time. They are 8+ years old, and I don't expect them to be around much longer in any case. What will I do with the fry? Don't know... maybe sell them or give them away... maybe try to introduce a few back into the main tank if there's room... ??? I haven't decided for sure yet if I'm going to do it. Just considering ideas of what to do with my 20g once the current inhabitants "move on."
 

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Oh, those choices, hmmmm....? :-?
- Most of us just let the holding female go full term. She eventually spits out the babies and the other Cichlids in there, catfish, loaches, etc.... just take care of the bizness. It's usually over in seconds. And well, that way there's just no baby fish to worry about.
- or -
- You do like some of us have (or will), and get some more valuable Cichlids. Kind of surprising to learn just how valuable, grown-out F1 babies can actually be from WC parents. I myself made literally 'tens' of dollars ( :roll: ) in selling F1 baby fish from WC Cichlid parents originating from CA and SA. Some of those parent fish I kept then, I even collected originally myself.
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And no... you aren't gonna get rich or anything selling baby fish like that. But, it is kind of fun raising the babies out. And, selling them helps to off-set (at least partially) some of the costs of being in this hobby. I remember doing a guest speaker presentation (Collecting in Honduras) for The Potomac Valley Aquarium Society in Fairfax Virginia. I brought in some F1 Amatatlania spilurus and Parachromis motaguensis babies that I gave away to the club to make money in an auction for the members. The amounts bid on those baby fish that day, were pretty eye raising! :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
The holding female that I got by accident has a couple favorite hiding places where she usually hangs out. But tonight she's swimming all over the tank and looking a bit stressed. She even started glass surfing. Could this be a sign that she's getting ready to spit? Maybe she's trying to get away from all the other fish....???
 

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Yes, getting ready. More probably she is frantic because the babies want out and she is trying to keep them in. They do the same thing in a tank by themselves.
 

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Auballagh said:
. I myself made literally 'tens' of dollars ( :roll: )
HA! I love it. "Literally tens of dollars" is one of my favorite things to say at work. Also, when somebody asks me for a financial estimate, my answer is "At least $12" and I have yet to be wrong!
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Do females ever refuse to spit, and consequently starve to death? My Yellow Lab was already holding when I got her, exactly 3 weeks ago. So she's been holding for at least 3 weeks, probably longer. She seems stressed, constantly glass surfing. Why won't she spit?!
 

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28 days is average so you are good. If she starts to look skinny (concave belly), you can strip her. It always seems to take forever for them to spit, but I would not worry until it has been more than a week since she started acting frantic.
 

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Smeagol said:
Do females ever refuse to spit, and consequently starve to death? My Yellow Lab was already holding when I got her, exactly 3 weeks ago. So she's been holding for at least 3 weeks, probably longer. She seems stressed, constantly glass surfing. Why won't she spit?!
They don't refuse to spit. What I've noticed on a number of occasions is that they try really hard, but the flesh is weak. And so, unfortunately, the temptation of feeding time is just too much, and this peculiarly bad time is precisely when they choose to evacuate their progeny.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
What should I expect after she spits? Will she immediately go back to normal behavior, or will it take her a few days to recuperate?
 

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She will be back to normal. If she got skinny, the "recuperation" will be gaining weight after her 28 day fast through normal eating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Lots of news.... My first holding female must have finally spit. I didn't see it happen; but her "baby bump" is gone, and she's eating now. So, I guess that's that. Did you notice that I said "my first holding female?" That's because now I have another Yellow Lab that's holding! The first one was already holding when the UPS man brought her to me. This second one must've spawned in my tank, which means I know who the daddy is (a big dominant male jerk named Napoleon). If that isn't enough, last night I saw a pair of Acei spawning. I don't know if they were successful, but they sure were trying hard.
 

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Yep.
You'll get used to it, soon enough. And, welcome to the African Mbuna world, man. They actually do this kind of thing in the aquarium - ALL THE TIME.
And, like I said earlier.... if you report and share here that you've got a WC female (worth $$$), holding proven F1 babies in her mouth? (Or eggs laid on a spawning site).
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*ahem*
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You'll probably wind up getting more C-f PMs than you would believe. :oops:
 

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She was in the planted tank? How many fry did you get?
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
DJRansome said:
She was in the planted tank? How many fry did you get?
No, I never moved her. I kept her in the 75g.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Update.... I just spotted a single fry hiding in a crevice where larger fish can't reach him (or her). Short of removing it to a different tank, is there anything I can do at this point to increase the odds of survival?
 

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Chances are the fry will be fine. You could add a pile of pebbles for it to use as it darts out to grab food if you think it is needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
DJRansome said:
Chances are the fry will be fine. You could add a pile of pebbles for it to use as it darts out to grab food if you think it is needed.
I don't understand. Before, everyone told me all the fry will get eaten by the adults. Now you're saying it will probably be fine. What's going on?

As for food, what can the fry eat? It's too small to eat regular food, isn't it?
 

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The adults usually eat the fry immediately. IME survivors last forever.

You don't see 20 fry...right?

IME they eat the regular food...even if they drag it into their spot and it softens so they can nibble. If you try to direct fry food to them, it just draws the attention of the adults.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
DJRansome said:
The adults usually eat the fry immediately. IME survivors last forever.

You don't see 20 fry...right?

IME they eat the regular food...even if they drag it into their spot and it softens so they can nibble. If you try to direct fry food to them, it just draws the attention of the adults.
No, I don't see 20 fry. But I didn't see this one either for a few days. There very well could be more of them hiding in other crevices outside my line of sight. But assuming there is only one, that still doesn't answer my question. The conventional wisdom seems to be that fry are a quick and easy snack for the adults. That's what I was told repeatedly. How did we move from the assumption that the fry will get eaten to the assumption that this one particular fry will not get eaten? How does surviving 3 days make so much difference?

As for food drawing the attention of the adults, that might be moot point. They're already aware of him. A few adults have darted at him, tried to catch him, but he can get far back into the crevice where they can't reach him. But he will have to come out eventually, right? He can't live in that little crevice forever.
 
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