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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I've had this fish for about seven years and have always thought of it as either a red devil or midas. But I've never been able to finds any pics that look like it. I've also thought it could be a female because of the smaller bump on it's head. It is about 7 inches long and lives alone in a 55 gal tank. Any help is appreciated.

 

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just a crazy hybrid (not a Midas for sure)
 

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Definitely not a midas or purebred severum. After 7years does it matter you probably really care about the fish now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the replies... No matter what is is, I do really love this fish. Very intelligent and playful!
 

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smitty said:
Definitely not purebred severum.
Well, you tell me how this fish is NOT a purebred severum. Go through every single one of it's traits, markings ect, and tell me how this fish is not a severerum?
 

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i'm no expert but it seems to me that it is a kkp a.k.a. king kong parrot with just more midas or red devil than the typical kkp
 

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Well, MAYBE , it just superfiscially resembles a severum....... but I really doubt it. Some more pictures would help but it seems to fit many characteristics/traits of a severum exactly:

1)Mouth ---has the mouth of severum, mouth of an RD/midas is much larger and much different. Mouth of a blood parrot-type is also much different and deformed.

2)Snout-----has the snout of a severum. RD/midas has a much more protruding snout; blood parrot type also is much different and deformed.

3) Gill plate opening----- same size, postion and shape as a severum. Midas/RD and blood parrot type are considerably different in this area.

4) Eye---- right look, color and postion in relationship to the head and face for this fish to be a severum.

5) Overall body shape----- has the right overall body shape to be a severum. A midas/RD has a much different body shape; I supose a Blood parrot type COULD have this shape as well, but are usually significantly shaped diffferent then this fish.
6) The way the dorsal and anal fin attatch to the body beside the caudal peduncle is like a severum,

I think some people don't realize that just about any CA/SA cichlid can develope a nauchal hump with age; even females. Seen many sevs in the past with a nauchal hump such as this one.
Some pics of golden sevs from the internet:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3169/3056546005_75322e6744.jpg
http://www.getahugetank.com/images/Gold_Severum_Cichlid.jpg
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/CichlidPIX/Red Severums IZOO 08 (1).JPG

I don't know how large or how old the fish was when you got it, but seeing that you have had it for 7 years, it is a very developed and mature fish. I supose a dorsal and anal spine and ray count might determine for sure what it is. I'm already convinced it's a severum, though a few more pictures might be helpfull.
Edit: 3rd try. should show up?
 

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You obviously haven't seen too many older severums. Once they start to age, this is what they start to look like. I fail to see how it has the warped, mutated shape of a blood parrot.
 

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SinisterKisses said:
You obviously haven't seen too many older severums. Once they start to age, this is what they start to look like. I fail to see how it has the warped, mutated shape of a blood parrot.
I kept a "Severum" for over 10 years so I think I know how they should look when old and pure. :wink:

Again it looks halfway between these two to me.

 

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If it is and old Severum why is it only 7" rather than the 12" these guys grow to in 55g tanks?
The mouth is in the wrong place on the head for a Severum.
The scales show pearling (some enlarged) like a blood parrot unlike a severum.
The dip on the head at eye hight is like a blood parrot unlike a severum.
The dorsal and anal fin are not as long as a Severums.

I guess its all because its a female. :wink:

All the best James
 

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I've never seen proof of a sev getting 12" in a 55. They don't even get that big very often in a 125. If all fish reached their maximum potential, there would be a lot more trophy bass in the lake. A fatty diet will also make the fish obese without making it grow particularly big, especially an omnivore that requires some veggies.

The mouth is better placed for a Heros than for an Amphilophus based mutant. It is clearly near subterminal like all Heros, not terminal like an Amphilophus - even the Bloody Parrot kind.

The pearling you speak of is another result of obesity. It can happen on any Cichlid. It is often seen on the Bloody Parrots because of the way they are misshapen, but it can happen on Severums, too.

The dip is at the bottom of a nuchal hump, which is another manifestation of obesity. Cichlids deposit fat in the forehead first. I've even seen it in obese Mbuna.

The anal goes off the edge of the photo, and the dorsal is folded down behind the caudal, so it is not possible to tell how long they are. However, if you look at the dorsal spines, you will note that the membranous material extends above the spines before it cuts down in front of the next spine. This is common to all Heros, makes their dorsal look more flat on top. On Amphilophus the spine extends above the membrane, which angles down from a point below the tip of the spines. That is why Amphilophus look like their dorsal spines are sharper. This is even visible in the mutants.

It is an Old, Fat Severum. Trust me, I know Old and Fat. :roll:
 

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Thank you for taking the time to explain your point of view mate. A true sine of a true expert.
I could go on to say the Blood parrot cichlid is guessed to be a hybrid cichlid. The fish was first created in Taiwan in around 1986. Its parentage is unknown, but the most commonly speculated pairings are midas cichlid (Amphilophus citrinellus) with the redhead cichlid (Paratheraps synspilus) and the "Severum" (Heros efasciatus) with the red devil cichlid (Amphilophus labiatus).

So traits of Amphilophus traits are not unusual in Blood parrots or blood parrot crosses as are Heros traits or Paratheraps traits but seeing one or another does not rule out the possibility that it is a hybrid with blood parrot in it.
I may be wrong on this guy. But think its so hard to tell with line bred fish exactly what thier make up is or was in the past as they are so far from stuff that is properly studdied or understood.

I think that because it shows lots of Heros traits it could be pure Heros but I sure would not bet on it. :wink:
I would bet if a DNA test was done on it that we would find at least a few genes from another genus or two.

All the best James
 

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24Tropheus said:
I could go on to say the Blood parrot cichlid is guessed to be a hybrid cichlid. The fish was first created in Taiwan in around 1986. Its parentage is unknown, but the most commonly speculated pairings are midas cichlid (Amphilophus citrinellus) with the redhead cichlid (Paratheraps synspilus) and the "Severum" (Heros efasciatus) with the red devil cichlid (Amphilophus labiatus).
The blood parrot's exact lineage is UNKNOWN. Lot's of speculation. Though it does seems to have definate midas/RD traits. Some beleive it is nothing more then a deformed midas/RD, and is not even a hybrid. Some claim it has severum ancestory, though others, such as myself really doubt this. There are no real identifiable severum traits on a blood parrot, other then possibly how the anal and dorsal fin attatch to the body, close to the caudal peduncle.....but that is because it is a short bodied mutant. Who knows for sure.

One thing that is certain, is that a severum is not an easily hybirdized cichlid(outside of the genus Heros). Even the gold strain was already available in the late `60`s and it was a very commonly kept fish though out the `70`s. Yet, never heard of one case of anybody crossing this fish with a CA cichlid.....can`t find any examples on any fish fourum. Maybe it`s possible, but the fish is not very inclined to cross, like a CA cichlid would with another CA.
 
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