[zippkatt]

I hope these questions are not too weird, but I am very new to tropheus.

I have read a lot about keeping meds like metronidazole and/or clout on hand to help with bloat. I am just wondering if all metronidazole is the same (other than strength/dose, obviously.) I work for a vet and we use metronidazole quite a bit to treat dogs and cats. I know the doctor would not have a problem with sending me home with some. I have not really looked into the met. that we use at the clinic, but (assuming its not flavored or anything) would it be safe to use? If so, what would be the proper dosage? Since it is in pill form, would I have to grind it? Also, this should only be used to treat if there is an actual problem, and not kept at theraputic levels or used as a preventative/precaution, right?

I have seen clout for sale at the LFS, but no metronidazole. At the chain fish store I am only really seeing things like coppersafe and tetracyclin based meds. If what we stock at the clinic isnt the same thing, should I just get clout?

Thanks in advance!
Jenn

 

[lloyd]

it's the same medication, and it is used for similar purpose with fish (intestinal bacterial blooms, secondary infections caused by internal parasitic infections), as you are familiar with at your veterinarian's clinic. pill form includes more bulk (filler) than we prefer to deal with, so many of us source 100% powder, and mix it with their feed. this also helps to assure each individual fish's intake. HTH.

 

[flashg]

I have used metro from the vet before... The only thing that I did not like about was it was in pill form and was very hard to dissolve. I think the powder is a more pure form like stated above. :wink:

 

[geoff_tropheus]

Every case of Bloat I have experienced was cured within 3-10 days using CLOUT.

Most cases where I tried METRO only, I ended up switching to CLOUT because I was loosing too many fish.

CLOUT's two biggest ingredients are MEtrodiazonal, and Malachite Green. The Malachite Green is the reason why CLOUT is not allowed in certain places because fish treated with Malachite Green has been linked to causing cancer in humans who eat those fish.

The Malachite Green is what causes the stain to occur to opaque silicone in aquariums.

Clout also contains other meds that I do not know what they are.

I do not know why CLOUT knocks out BLOAT so much faster than just METRO, but it just does.

If your looking fore a preventitive for first arrival fishes, I think METRO is great for treated food or even treating the tank for several days after first arrival. Go ahead do that, but if you get BLOAT, I would not hessitate. Treat with CLOUT.

Take care and best of luck with your new fishes!!

Geoff

 

[sneakypete]

Geoff:

I'm a little new to this so forgive me if I'm stating the obvious.

From what I've read, the reason why clout is more effective is because bloat requires both a anti parasitic (metro) and a broad spectrum anti bacterial (Malachite Green) to be truly effective. Its the one-two punch that's required. I've also read you can sub in something like Furnase (sp?), another broad spectrum anti bacterial with the metro and get much the same result.

I read this over at the cichlid room companion site where a few people have written on the subject FWIW.

pete

 

[prov356]

anti parasitic (metro) and a broad spectrum anti bacterial (Malachite Green)

Metro is the antibacterial and malachite green is the anti parasitic. Some have cured with metro alone so an anti parasitic is not always required, but many have not had success with metro alone, so sometimes it is. Reasons are unknown, but my guess is that the bacteria explosion happens before the parasite explosion, so if you catch it early, you may be successful with metro alone. Just a guess.

Another option that some have had success with is JPC (Jungle parasite clear). It's also got metro for that 'one-two punch'. It contains praziquantel to deal with the internal parasites which is not as harsh as the malachite green in Clout. Maybe also then not as effective? Don't know.

I've got all 3 Clout, Metro, and JPC, and fortunately they're all collecting dust on the shelf. If I had to I'd start with JPC and use Clout as last resort if that failed. The metro I keep around for medicating food.

 

[geoff_tropheus]

Parasite Clear is also really good stuff, lots of success stories there also.

I still would keep CLOUT as my knockout. I think that MED is a must to have on hand.

 

[Dave]

Neither Clout nor Met are approved for use on food fishes.

 

[sneakypete]

Not to be argumentative, but Malachite Green seems to be a cross spectrum med for multiple issues, not just parasites or bacteria. Below is a quote from wikpedia.

Malachite green, also called aniline green, basic green 4, diamond green B, or victoria green B, IUPAC name:4-[(4-dimethylaminophenyl)-phenyl-methyl]-N,N-dimethyl-aniline is a toxic chemical primarily used as a dye. When diluted, it can be used as a topical antiseptic or to treat parasites, fungal infections, and bacterial infections in fish and fish eggs. It is also used as a bacteriological stain.

Also, I thought Metro was mainly for parasites. Does it kill bacteria too?

I'm learning here guys so bare with me...

pete

 

[mcorbeil]

Is the Parasite clear available in Canada?

 

[NorthShore]

Is the Parasite clear available in Canada?

Marcel, Walmart at the very end of Portage ave had it a couple of months ago.

 

[NorthShore]

Also, I thought Metro was mainly for parasites. Does it kill bacteria too?

pete

It works against bacteria.

Bloat can and is caused by both bacterial blooms as well as parasitic infestations, although it's more often bacterial in nature, imo.

I use Clout. I'm not ashamed of saying it. It has worked every single time I've used and I cannot say the same for metro. I've even used metro against HITH with some hecklii. I was very disappointed with the results, even after prolonged use.

I've been told that using clout is liking using a shotgun to kill a fly. As far as I'm concerned, its too hard to hit a fly with a bb gun. :lol:

 

[Dave]

Also, I thought Metro was mainly for parasites. Does it kill bacteria too?

It is mainly for parasites.

 

[mcorbeil]

Wally World eh? I'll have to check that out! Thanks Gerry! From what i've read JPC has a pretty good combo of medications in it. (metronidazole + Praziquantel = Anitbacterial+ anti-Parasite)
:dancing:

I would use clout more often if it wasn't for the silicone staining. Maybe i just need to get the black siliconed tanks LOL

 

[flashg]

I have lost more fish to clout that metro for sure... Metro is magic tropheus dust IMO and clout is TOO HARD on the nitrogen cycle. (I will only use clout as a last resort) I have only had bloat once and this is when I first got into tropheus. (Two years now with no porblems) I used metro at about 10x the recommended dose for 3 days and I only lost 3 out of 15 fish. Never used clout for bloat on tropheus, but I have used it on demasoni and lost them all!

 

[24Tropheus]

Real funny thing is I can buy Malachite green for fish treatment (Koi), I can get treatments that contain Metro but I am not allowed to buy Clout.
Go figure.

 

[geoff_tropheus]

It might be the other components then, I just assumned it was the Malachite Green becuase of the cancer link as the reason CLOUT is banned in some locations.

The only fish I have ever lost to CLOUT was some catfish when I did not know better.

When using CLOUT, if you have silver sided fish like CYPS, XENOS, or Featherfins, or other sandwellers, only dose 50% and then dose the other 50% 4-8 hours later.

CLOUT is a powerful cocktail of meds. If its ok with you, I'll stick with my shotgun and you can keep the BB Gun. In the meantime, you'll have a higher chance of losing fish, and mine will be eating and back to normal by the time yours are cured and taking their first bites.

If you have enough filtration and proper cycled aquarium, you shouldnt have problems with your bacteria. There should be plenty there, I do however recomend taking it easy on the first waterchange or two following the treatment.

 

[zippkatt]

Wow, I haven't been able to check this thread lately and I was surprised to see so many responses! Thanks for all the tips everyone! I am still not sure what to think though, it seems like there is a big difference of opinion on this one. My vet is checking to see if he can get met in the pure powder form. He has offered to write me a script to take to the large pet pharmacy across town, if we cant get it ourselves. The pharmacy will definitely have it, but they will probably charge me quite a bit. Those of you that use the straight metronidazole, where are you getting it? Is there a cheaper online source I could use?

My plan is to keep both metro and clout on hand for now. It sounds like this is a heavily debated topic. Everyone is making good points and, without first hand experience, I don't know which way to lean. It seems like the safest bet would be to have both on hand in case of an emergency. Thanks again for all the tips!

 

[flashg]

I get my metro here. The best deal is to buy a kilo and split it with someone... You have to call them to order and they will make you sign a waiver to purchase it. (Stating you are not gonna use it on humans etc...)