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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My new 90G project has succumb to bloat. Three of the nine fish in the tank are not eating flakes, crisps or pellets. However, when i feed frozen brine shrimp they actually eat some without spitting, reluctantly but they actually do eat a little. I am currently treating with Jungle Parasite Clear and plan on doing three treatment spread 48 hours apart with a 25% WC before each treatment.

AFTER treatment is finished, i want to feed Met treated brine shrimp for a few days seeing that its the only food that they ingest. Does anybody know how to dose Met and Brine Shrimp?

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
jordanroda said:
Dude.
brine shrimp is your problem :eek:
no, i never feed brine shrimp. after they stopped eating for almost a week, i bought some frozen brine shrimp for a "test" and they ate "some" reluctantly which gave me a sign of hope.

the fish i keep are haps and peacocks not mbuna.
 

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Seachem recommends 1 measure (100mg) per 1 tablespoon of frozen food paste.
I would double this for usage as treatment for bloat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
GTZ said:
Seachem recommends 1 measure (100mg) per 1 tablespoon of frozen food paste.
I would double this for usage as treatment for bloat.
Wow that seems like a strong dose. i have read on some reef boards that they soak food in a 1% Metronidazole solution for a few hours and then feed. that on the other hand seems to be not enough.
 

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Perhaps start out with 100mg/tbsp.
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... azole.html
Code:
There is little danger of overdosing. Usual dose is 125 mg/10 gallons.
Use 1–2 measures (each about 100 mg) for every 40 L (10 gallons).
Code:
To feed, blend 1 measure with about 1 tablespoon of frozen food paste.
I'm going by what I've read regarding metro being difficult to overdose.
Dosages vary quite a bit from one manufacturer to another, Fishzole recommend 250mg/10g while Seachem says 125mg/10g. I don't think dosages need to be all that accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Would buying tablets from the Pharmacy and crushing them into a powder be the same as buying Seachem Metroplex? Its SO expensive around here.

I am going to try it and when its all over i will post my experience with bloat, metronidazole, epsom salt and parasit clear. i am hoping for a 100% recovery. This is my second case of bloat in over 13 years of keeping Malawi cichlids. Sadly, these fish came from a reputable breedier in my area and i am 99.9% certain i bought them already ill. I contacted him right away and he said there was no guarantee on WC fish.
 

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With bloat you don't really want them to eat unless they are fully recovered, at which time they will eat the normal food with gusto.

If I buy metronidazole from a fish room supplier rather than a branded medication it is less expensive. Shop around.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
DJRansome said:
With bloat you don't really want them to eat unless they are fully recovered, at which time they will eat the normal food with gusto.

If I buy metronidazole from a fish room supplier rather than a branded medication it is less expensive. Shop around.
I want to be prepared if after the treatment they still will not eat. At that point I would want them to ingest the medication via brine shrimp because they seem to eat a little of that at least.
 

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Don't worry about them not eating. DJRansome is right you should not be feeding at all during treatment for bloat. Think about it, if your fish have an intestinal blockage due to bloat feeding is only going to compound the problem. During treatment your fish will be fine if they don't eat for a week.
 

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Hard to say whether or not to feed metro soaked food to an already, clearly bloated fish. On one hand, as you say, you may be compounding the problem, on the other hand, if there's an opportunity to get a more concentrated dosage into the fish, you should.
Also, you need to be careful when determining whether the fish has bloat or not, apart from the obvious swelling. A fish with bloat doesn't eat at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
GTZ said:
Hard to say whether or not to feed metro soaked food to an already, clearly bloated fish. On one hand, as you say, you may be compounding the problem, on the other hand, if there's an opportunity to get a more concentrated dosage into the fish, you should.
Also, you need to be careful when determining whether the fish has bloat or not, apart from the obvious swelling. A fish with bloat doesn't eat at all.
the swelling has been minor but present. thankfully the swelling has been going down with each passing day. as stated before, the affected fish started out by having ZERO interest in food. now they are showing interest in food but they spit it out immediately. however, the brine shrimp seems to "stay" in them but they eat one or two and then just hover there whereas the healthy fish are going CRAZY over the brine shrimp.
 

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I think there is no way around dosing the water with metro or clout to make sure that even fish which aren't eating (or eat very little) get enough medication.

If you want to additionally feed metro-soaked food to the tank during the recovery period - I guess this isn't a bad idea to ensure the epidemic does not come back. However, know that changes in diet can probably contribute to intestinal stress and maybe to bloat in the first place. So I'd stay away from any new foods during this period. If you already feed your fish brine shrimp once a week, then maybe this is ok since they are used to it (although some might argue this kind of diet may contribute to bloat in the first place!).
 

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Kanorin said:
I think there is no way around dosing the water with metro or clout to make sure that even fish which aren't eating (or eat very little) get enough medication.

If you want to additionally feed metro-soaked food to the tank during the recovery period - I guess this isn't a bad idea to ensure the epidemic does not come back. However, know that changes in diet can probably contribute to intestinal stress and maybe to bloat in the first place. So I'd stay away from any new foods during this period. If you already feed your fish brine shrimp once a week, then maybe this is ok since they are used to it (although some might argue this kind of diet may contribute to bloat in the first place!).
Agreed,

Treat the whole tank asap. I wouldn't feed the fish at all while you're treating. Clout worked great for me, but like most, I learned the hard way. I followed the instructions in this post to a "T", and it saved my fish from the brink of death: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24132
Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
my tank is already undergoing treatment...i stated this in the original post.
 

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Mudkicker said:
my tank is already undergoing treatment...i stated this in the original post.
Yes, but you also stated that you're feeding or trying to feed brine shrimp which is a huge mistake with African cichlids. I was pointing you to a thread showing a method that alot of folks, including myself have used with success. Forget trying to feed the fish anything. If you're treating with Metro, then I would say keep it up, but I've never used it, just clout.

Also, you should have posted this in the "Illnes, health and nutrition" forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
fish_addiction said:
Mudkicker said:
my tank is already undergoing treatment...i stated this in the original post.
Yes, but you also stated that you're feeding or trying to feed brine shrimp which is a huge mistake with African cichlids. I was pointing you to a thread showing a method that alot of folks, including myself have used with success. Forget trying to feed the fish anything. If you're treating with Metro, then I would say keep it up, but I've never used it, just clout.

Also, you should have posted this in the "Illnes, health and nutrition" forum.
I don't know, I think it was pretty clear that the brine shrimp was just a test...and that I was not feeding during treatment.

Mudkicker said:
no, i never feed brine shrimp. after they stopped eating for almost a week, i bought some frozen brine shrimp for a "test" and they ate "some" reluctantly which gave me a sign of hope.
the fish i keep are haps and peacocks not mbuna.
Mudkicker said:
AFTER treatment is finished, i want to feed Met treated brine shrimp for a few days seeing that its the only food that they ingest. Does anybody know how to dose Met and Brine Shrimp?
 

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This is a confusing one. If a fish is bloated because it has an intestinal blockage then initially I wouldn't medicate at all--I'd stop feeding and add Epsom salt to help things move along. If a fish is bloated because it has bloat, well, fish that have bloat don't eat. :?
mudkicker's fish sound like they have bloat until you get to the brine shrimp eating part. Perhaps brine shrimp is just impossible to pass up--even for a fish that has bloat?? I honestly don't know.

But getting back to your question: how to dose metronidazole with brine shrimp. Not sure if brine shrimp is the best way to go as far as a met-vehicle, but I think I would first of all finish out the JPC, (which contains metronidazole) and then if the fish are eating and swimming normally there's really no need to feed them medicated food. Bloat is thought to be caused when the fish comes under some sort of stress, (rough handling, aggressive tank mates, poor water conditions, etc) and the flagellates that normally reside harmlessly in the fish's intestines suddenly increase in numbers and overwhelm the fish.
So if your intention is to ward off future bloat episodes the best plan is to keep the tank as stress-free as possible.
Whatever treatment you choose: fit in as many partial water changes before, during and after treatment as you can. It's believed that bloat is spread when healthy fish mouth infected feces so the water changes and gravel siphonings will help with that but I've also read that the flagellates may have a free swimming stage during an bloat outbreak so the water changes and gravel siphonings will help in that regard also.

If you choose to feed fish metronidazole soaked food--food of any kind, then I would go with the dosage that GTZ recommended.

Robin
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
thanks for all the replies....i will post the conclusion to my bloat experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Need your ideas...

Today marks 48 hours since my third and final treatment of Jungle Parasite Clear.

I plan on doing a 50% water change and add some carbon. I will keep the Epsom Salt mixutre going for 1 more week.

I decided to hold off on feeding the brime shrimp mixed with Met.

When should I try to feed normal food?
 
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