[jefejt]

I witnessed my big male EBJD and my gold JD lay some eggs. I'm pretty excited and hoping they'll develop. I have been unsuccessful with my first batches of BG x BG. Right now they are in a 75 and I dropped in a separator giving them 2/3 of the tank to themselves. I picked up a brine shrimp hatchery today so hopefully they'll appreciate some live BBS. The pictures aren't the best, but you can see the parents. Any suggestions would be great.

Gold Female and eggs

Eggs

Male EBJD (Pictures don't do him justice)
Nice reflection shot

 

[CiChLiD LoVeR128]

WOW!! AWESOME!!! :thumb:

Congrats dude! :dancing: :drooling:

 

[Nathan43]

Awesome, I would love to see how the spawn turn out :thumb:

 

[Pwnage]

Very nice!!! Can I ask you where you picked up the gold? *** been searching everywhere....

 

[Toby_H]

Congratts man...

Mixing Blues & Golds will either be a complicated way to get what we already have access to, or will bare a whole new color variety...

For your benefit let's hope for the latter ...

For General Information:

I believe he got his Gold Dempseys from Jeff Rapps... To my knowledge all Gold Dempseys in the US come from the same source or are offspring (inbred) of that source. So it's good to ask where a supplier got their stock, if they say they bred them they are either lying or selling inbred offspring... I recommend Rapps or Ken Davis as suppliers, although West coast customers may want to look for a West coast supplier to save on shipping.

Blue x Gold has been spawned once before (only once to my knowledge, maybe more) and this proved all the fry to be 'normal looking' although no further research was made to determine recessive genes in the fry.

 

[Pwnage]

Thanks for the info- sent him an email and hopefully I can get an order in first thing Monday morning.

(sorry to hi-jack your thread)

 

[Big Vine]

Congrats on the spawn...got any updates for us? :fish:
BV

 

[jefejt]

Eggs are all gone. We'll try again soon.

 

[AU Chief]

Apparently someone else has done this. It results in all regular JD's, and the person didn't know what kind of genes they carried, as they didn't breed any of the offspring.

http://dempsey.6.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=94

 

[MacFish]

Apparently someone else has done this.

That someone else is 4 posts above yours nc_nutcase aka Toby_H

 

[Toby_H]

:dancing: Yup, it was me

I've actually talked to jefejt (JT)... we may both breed and raise out a spawn. This was if they do produce any interesting finds we will have unrelated fish to further explore with...

~Toby

 

[auratum]

Don't leave me out man... My female gold is growing nicely and acting like a pair with my dominant Hollywood EBJD. Got my fingers crossed that something good will happen soon. I am more optimistic than Toby that this endeavor will yield something interesting in the second generation :thumb:

 

[Frameshift]

Just throwing this out there...

If anyone gets sellable fry from gold X EBJD let me know. I think interesting things could be done in the second generation.

 

[Toby_H]

auratum, I didn't mean to leave you out man!!

I believe JT (jefejt) is also using a Blue from Hollywood. My Blue is from Rapps... and all the Golds are from a single source...

Conveniently... My parents live just outside of Detroit and I simply love Chicago... So I visit Michigan once or twice a year and Chicago every year or two... so we should be able to pull off a swap rather easily...

As I said elsewhere... I would assume there won't be anything new being formed in this cross but I'm not going to be limited by my assumptions... I hope I'm wrong...

 

[auratum]

As I said elsewhere... I would assume there won't be anything new being formed in this cross but I'm not going to be limited by my assumptions... I hope I'm wrong...

Me too! :thumb:

 

[DirtyBlackSocks]

Don't just throw the spawn out, probably some recessive's left to be unlocked with a little bit of work in them...

 

[Toby_H]

When I had my first Gold x Blue spawn I thought about exploring with them… but to be honest I saw the complex potential and felt it would take more time, patience and space than I was willing to offer them at the time…

With every fish in the brood looking the same (look like Regular Dempseys), each fish would have to be spawned with a Blue Dempsey AND a Gold Dempsey to identify it’s recessive genes… IF there is a new recessive morph in that mix I would suspect it would be a small percentage of the overall brood. Therefore this may prove an extensively long process to identify them.

I personally feel I have my hands full just trying to keep my Blue lines organized (to prevent inbreeding), and on top of that I’ve decided to make Gold Gene Dempseys in attempts to produce Golds that are not offspring of siblings (all Golds come from a single source). So to add to that a thousand young I need to pair of with two different fish (one Blue and one Gold) sounds like a more involved process than I’m currently ready for…

But at the same time… if it has anything to do with a Dempsey then I’m curious and willing to at least be part of a small group sharing the work… The worse thing that can happen is we have fun raising/breeding fish that do not generate income… well that’s what fish keeping has been for me for almost 20 years

 

[Frameshift]

When I had my first Gold x Blue spawn I thought about exploring with them… but to be honest I saw the complex potential and felt it would take more time, patience and space than I was willing to offer them at the time…

With every fish in the brood looking the same (look like Regular Dempseys), each fish would have to be spawned with a Blue Dempsey AND a Gold Dempsey to identify it’s recessive genes… IF there is a new recessive morph in that mix I would suspect it would be a small percentage of the overall brood. Therefore this may prove an extensively long process to identify them.

I personally feel I have my hands full just trying to keep my Blue lines organized (to prevent inbreeding), and on top of that I’ve decided to make Gold Gene Dempseys in attempts to produce Golds that are not offspring of siblings (all Golds come from a single source). So to add to that a thousand young I need to pair of with two different fish (one Blue and one Gold) sounds like a more involved process than I’m currently ready for…

But at the same time… if it has anything to do with a Dempsey then I’m curious and willing to at least be part of a small group sharing the work… The worse thing that can happen is we have fun raising/breeding fish that do not generate income… well that’s what fish keeping has been for me for almost 20 years

You wouldn't have to do all those crosses...just cross the offspring with each other as they'd all be heterozygous so you'd get all the homozygous recessive traits on the F2 generation. Granted, it might be tough to isolate special fry in the F2 generation, as it would be a small percentage (1/16 of the fry), but still quite possible.

 

[auratum]

You wouldn't have to do all those crosses...just cross the offspring with each other as they'd all be heterozygous so you'd get all the homozygous recessive traits on the F2 generation. Granted, it might be tough to isolate special fry in the F2 generation, as it would be a small percentage (1/16 of the fry), but still quite possible.

Exactly! :thumb:

And if you cross the F1's (Gold x Blue) from two different lines, the results should be the same as a sibling F1 cross but with a more diversified gene pool! :dancing: :thumb: :dancing:

Like you said the trouble is that you don't know what genes everything has except the double recessive (assuming it is possible) that expresses both the gold and the electric blue traits. You will get lots of normal looking JD's with all sorts of hidden genes, some golds with and without the recessive electric blue gene, and electric blues with and without the recessive gold genes. Quite the hodgepodge of genes from the F2 cross... :roll:

 

[Toby_H]

So the way I understand this…

Frameshaft is suggesting the offspring of the Blue x Gold pair will all have the same recessive traits. I’d assume you expect all the fry to hold both the Blue and Gold genes in a recessive state… Thus if they were to be bred to each other (or an unrelated fish of the same morphology) The result would be a percentage of fish that are Blue, a percentage Gold and possibly a new mixed coloration… feel free to correct me if I’m wrong…

Auratum is suggesting the offspring of the Blue x Gold pair will be a combination of regular JD, Blue Gene, Gold Gene, and most likely a Blue & Gold Gene. Thus identifying what fish has what genetic make up will be difficult and take extensive breeding to isolate the fish producing a new coloration.

I believe the offspring of Blue x Gold will be 50% Blue Gene and 50% Gold Gene. I also believe that if this cross does ever produce a fish that is both Blue and Gold… the nature of the Gold quality will wash out the Blue just like it does brown and black…

I have to admit all three perspectives are based on logical thought and are valid possibilities… I guess we won’t know for about 14 months… Let’s just make sure we do some trading to diversify our genetics