[Dutch Dude]

G'day,

Does anyone know what specie of Guianacara this is? They are sold to me as sp. Rio Caroni but I'm not convinced of that. In the middle you can see the large head hump with the dominant male. Unfortunately the colors of the picture aren't great but from a distance the hump looks orange. When you see up close it has a yellow color with small red dots like sp. red cheek. Is this indeed sp. Rio Caroni or possibly a different specie? Thanks for the input.

Ruurd

 

[ewok]

whatever it is, it is awesome. i really want to get some. :thumb:

how is the aggression like? any specific kind of care?

 

[Terra Incognita]

Guianacara sp. "Orinoco" would be my best bet.

 

[Dutch Dude]

Thanks for the replies!

Ewok,...in the real their colors are more vibrant. They have some iridescent parts on their scales and they have stunning blue eyes! I keep mine in a small group of 4 and recently added 2 more so the number is 6. Both males quarrel over territory but this is so peaceful it realy makes you laugh! When it comes to it they can handle themselve well and when a pleco enters his cave he will be kicked out of it! When the pleco's are around they ignore them. I introduced some small tetras (head and tail light tetra) and they don't pay attention to them. Aggression is low and they are great fish! They are social fish and when it comes to danger and feeding time they stick together. For the rest of the time they flirt around and males quarrel and provoke each other by entering each others territory. They won't hurt each other and the only thing happens is a short spurt, flashing and rarely a lip lock. They have small mouths so tetras should be relatively save. I don't know yet what their behaviour will be during spawning but I'm pretty convinced they wont turn out in killers. The size is 5 to 6 1/2 inch. They are easy to take care of and feed on sinking pellets, algae wafers, shrimp pellets, frozen and live foods. They like temps around the 78 and can handle a wide range on water parameters. They do dig pits and definitely need caves!

Terra,.....it is realy hard to determine the exact specie and they look a lot like each other. I will google a bit on the Orinoco but so far I didn't found a fish that matcher. They look the most like Owroewefi but without the red cheeks and the males do have large humps. Thanks for the input!

 

[Dutch Dude]

Oooh eeh by the way,...the first pic on the profiles section of the Guianacara Owroewefi is very bad and of a stressed fish so this isn't representative Pic 3 is the best.

 

[ewok]

where are you guys getting your information about the guinacara family?
there seems to be very limited information.
i'm starting to really like south americans again. especially after i got my hoplarchus

 

[Terra Incognita]

Terra,.....it is realy hard to determine the exact specie and they look a lot like each other. I will google a bit on the Orinoco but so far I didn't found a fish that matcher. They look the most like Owroewefi but without the red cheeks and the males do have large humps. Thanks for the input!

This is the only picture I could find, right here on our very site.

Labeled as a female, and looks like some of yours.

 

[Dutch Dude]

Ewok,....the book of Thomas Weidner (South American Eartheaters published by Cichlid Press) contains some very useful info abouth care, natural habitat and behaviour. Except for that I talked to a few people and Howler33 was one of them. I found some German articles by google and read bits and pieces. There is indeed a lack on info on these wonderful fish and just like the Bolivians a lot of people pas by in the lfs. So some basic info.

temp 25C to 31C (77 to 88)
PH 5.5 to 8
GH up to 20

They are cave breeding fish and don't like strong lighting. They love shaded aria's and take shelter underneath or behind driftwood. Minimum tank for a couple should be 30 gallon and footprint of 32 inch x 16 inch. I read that a couple in a small tank can be more territorial and in some cases aggressive during spawning. In a group they should be les territorial and no big issues. The minimum tank for 4 of them should be 55 gallon and a footprint of 40 inch x 20 inch.

Gender is hard to determine. males become a bit larger and have a small hump with makes the head more blunt. That's all the visible deference! So with youngsters you realy can't see the difference and selecting on size is the best bet.

Terra,....like Ewok already mentioned there is not mutch info on the Internet abouth the Guianacara so I was not surprised this was the only pic. I don't know if this is a separate specie or a color variety and found in the Orinoco river system. The base color of my fish is more towards sand color and yellow unlike the beige from the "Orinoco". There is an undescribed specie Guianacara Copperhead and no pics available. This is also a possibility. For now they look a lot like Owroewefi but without the red cheek and a larger hump. But thanks for the input and off course there is a possibility they turn out to be "Orinoco".

 

[DeadFishFloating]

Nice cichlids and set up Ruurd. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

How about some full tank shots with the whole school.

 

[Dutch Dude]

Thanks Peter for the nice words! Here is a full tank shot. In the real it is low lighted (2 times 38 Watt tube lights) but in this pic the colors of the fish are just like they are in the real. Notice the dominant male on the left. In this pic 2 adults are visible and 2 youngsters I bought recently. The Echinodorus don't look that good right now but they need to recover after some heavy damage from the Bahia Red (I sold the Bahia's 2 weeks ago).

 

[Howler33]

Here is a pic of some of my Guianacara that were also sold to me as Rio Caroni.

 

[Dutch Dude]

Hee Howler,...thanks for the pics and post! As you can see there is some difference in the shape of the head and the colors. The base color of yours is more towards pink wile mine are more towards yellow. Except for that they don´t have the large humps and don´t show the `orange`to ocker coloration on the head.

I put this question also on an other board and I was pointed at an article abouth Guianacara Stergiosi. This is a new genus and the Orange cheeks and Coroni turn out to be the same specie. The description and pics match your fish. If I reed the description of the fish they fit in for a large part such as the lateral spot. But,...coloration and hump don´t fit.

What do you think :?:

 

[dogofwar]

From what I understand, Guianacara are pretty poorly described and hard to ID just by pictures. I have a group as well and I just call them. G. sp...

 

[Dutch Dude]

Dogofwar,...your right the genus is a bit of a mess and the fish are indeed poorly described. It is time to do something abouth it becouse these fish are wonderful mid sized cichlids and realy fun to wach! I talked to some real experts and was pointed at a German article. Most likely they are G. Stergiosi formerly known as sp Red Cheek AND sp Rio Caroni. They turn out to be the same specie. The best way to determine specie is by the lateral spot. Mine do fit in that profile but have some different colorations. I realy like to see a pic of your fish and I would like it if you put it on here to!

 

[Geejo4]

Wow, those are really nice fish Dutch Dude and Howler!!!

Now I really want some!

I know you said a 30 gallon with a foot print of 32 inch x 16 inch. But could I get away with a couple in a 29 gallon? Maybe there is a smaller species? If not I might just need to get a bigger tank. :lol: I really want some now.

Thanks!

 

[Howler33]

I have never tried to keep mine in anything smaller than a 110 gallon tank but, I have noticed they are more aggressive in small groups. I have a group of 8 and they are very peaceful, but put one or two in a community tank and they become bullies.

Ruurd,

I found your post with the link to the German article but, unfortunately I can't read German. I don't have any experience with this species outside of the group I have so I am afriad I can't add anymore to what the experts on the other forum already said. With the social behavior of this species I can easliy see how they may have cross bred in the intertwined river systems to add confusion to classifying them. They are an awesome fish and all the variants I have seen are very beautiful.

Joe

 

[ewok]

hehe love this thread
thanks for the links and tips, dutch dude

i need to get my hands on some of these...

i LOVE this picture...

Guianacara cf. owroewefi

 

[Dutch Dude]

Thanks Geejo4 for the nice words! About tank size,.....one gallon difference is no problem but the footprint is very important! A breeding couple could do in a tank that size but Guianacara feel best in groups just like Geophagus. If you keep them as a couple they most likely show some more temperament and possibly even aggression. In a group (shoul) they they are mildly and have the same temperament of most Geophagus and suitable for some other company like corydoras, loricarids and tetras. So if you can get a hold on a larger tank I would realy recommend it and keep in mind that footprint is very important!

 

[Dutch Dude]

Joe (Howler),....I kept mine temporarely in a 50 gallon tank with some loricarids for abouth 2 months without any troubles. No aggression issues and they did just fine! This was a tank with a footprint of 40 inch x 16 and back then they were with 4 of them. But,..larger is better and I don't know what would have happened if they would breed in a tank that size. For now I keep mine in a 90 gallon 48 x 20 footprint and they do fine!

Joe,...do your fish have tank mates???

I can reed German and are willing to translate the most important info from that article. I need some time but by the end of the week I put it on this treat.

Thanks for your input Joe!

Ewok,....unfortunately we can't see the pic. If I'm correct Jeff Raps got some! They are a rare specie so you probably have to do some investigation.

Talk to you soon and I surely will add more info. Unfortunately bits and pieces from books, discussions and experiences of owners and hopefully this will answer some of our questions. If someone want to make a contribution,...feel free. I like to know everything abouth the specie such as behaviour, what your feeding regime is and so on!

Ruurd

 

[Howler33]

Ruurd thank you for offering to translate the article. Iti is so hard to find good info on these guys. I keep my group of 8 with 5 Hypsophorys Nicuraguensis, 3 Green Severums and 2 Sajica.