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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is the logical progression of "Glenn's Tank Thread" under Aquarium Setup https://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/vie ... 4&t=390593

This list was suggested by chazeltine .....

1 male and 4 females of Chindongo Saulosi
1 male and 4 females of Psuedotropheous Acei
1 male and 4 females of Cynotilapia Afra
1 male and 4 females of Labidochromis caeruleus
1 male and 4 females of Labeotropheus trewavasae

An amendment was made by DJRansome .....

"For a different thought on stocking I like 4 species in a 48x18 tank. I would eliminate the afra (now known as zebroides) since they are blue barred fish like the saulosi, and the saulosi have colorful females.

I would also do 7 females for the labeotropheus as they can be more aggressive than the others."

after a discussion on Clown Loaches this thought was added

"They are way smaller than the loaches and MAYBE 8 inches long but sleek and absolutely not a problem in a 48" tank. Or go Synodontis lucipinnis...smaller and no parasite brooding. Also not as good at fry patrol"

So I will use this thread a a place to discuss the new fish for the new tank.

The tank is still cycling, I expect to have some Dr. Tim's One and Only tomorrow and will try his fish-less cycle.
 

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So given the suggestions so far, and your original decision to go with Malawi, and your decisions so far, what additional information can Members provide to help you decide?

Mbuna or haps and peacocks?

Mixed gender or all male?

Save us flipping between the topics, what are the dimensions of the tank?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
DJRansome said:
So given the suggestions so far, and your original decision to go with Malawi, and your decisions so far, what additional information can Members provide to help you decide?

Mbuna or haps and peacocks?

Mixed gender or all male?

Save us flipping between the topics, what are the dimensions of the tank?
I am thinking Mbuna, male and female

I am not a real fan of the coloring I have seen in Peacocks, but they are no as territorial.

Tank is 110 gal High (48 x 18 x30)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
DJRansome said:
what additional information can Members provide to help you decide?
I thought about this and the answer right now is nothing, however after I do my reading I will have very specific questions.

Currently getting a handle on the three species, general characteristics.

Are there any top swimmers? Haplochromines? little concerned with the 1/4 of the Cichlids that are predators (no Fry survive, not that I want to bred, but the activity is nice to watch)

Just kind of thinking out load and will listen to any input.
 

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Lake Malawi cichlids tend to swim at all levels of the tank...especially once spawning starts so for 7.5 years of their 8 year lifetime...all over the tank.

Of course your tank is 2X deeper than many, so I would not expect fish to hang out extensively at the top. Acei have a rep for this but I did not find it to be more true for them than any other mbuna.

There are not mbuna predators so not a concern. The occasional fry may survive but unlikely with the Synodontis in the tank.
 

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Scientific name? I would not try to ID them by looking. Curious why you would want to?

Peacocks are properly called Aulonocara.

Haps in particular have a wide variety of shapes.

And although they are not commonly referred to this way, Aulonocara are haps.
 

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GlennLever said:
How do you identify Haplochromines, Mbuna, and Peacocks

Body shape, mouth, fins?

I cannot seem to find a good description on how to tell them apart?
These are groupings used in the aquarium hobby and not really groupings that fit with scientific classification.
All lake Malawi cichlids in the hobby are Haplochromines ( belong to the tribe Haplochromini) and are thought to have a single common ancestor (monophyletic). There are actually a few Tilapines in Lake Malawi, but none are really in the hobby.
Mbuna generally refer to elongated fish that live and feed above the rocky areas. They are not a monphyletic group as DNA studies have shown some to be more closely related to peacocks and/or haps then they are to other mbuna. Aquarists distinguish these from other Haplochromines primarily on their body shape and by the fact that many hobbyists have become very familiar with all of the genera.
Peacocks are a monphyletic grouping as they are all members of the same genus, Aulonocara. In terms of appearance the distinction in look from "Haps" is not always so obvious, nor easy to explain with words, but as one becomes very familiar with the genus, aquarists recognize them as members of the Aulonocara genus. Aulonocara are more closely related to mbuna, then they are to at least some "Haps".
Malawi "Haps" are generally those fish that used to be in the genus, Haplochromis. They are recognized by hobbyists primarily by their deeper body shape. Over the last 40 years or so, these fish were removed from the genus Haplochromis, and placed in a multitude of genera. Today there are no Haps from lake Malawi remaining in the genus Haplochromis. This genus is made up of Haplochromine fish from outside of lake Malawi of what I would refer to as "victorian-types".
"Haps" are found through out lake Malawi, though they are some what more associated with sandy areas or really deep water, and some what less so from rocky areas (which mbuna are almost exclusively associated with).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
DJRansome said:
Scientific name? I would not try to ID them by looking. Curious why you would want to?

Peacocks are properly called Aulonocara.

Haps in particular have a wide variety of shapes.

And although they are not commonly referred to this way, Aulonocara are haps.
Why, I do not want to look like a idiot whan I walk in to buy some fish, or maybe I purchase online, never do that before.

BC in SK said:
GlennLever said:
How do you identify Haplochromines, Mbuna, and Peacocks

Body shape, mouth, fins?

I cannot seem to find a good description on how to tell them apart?
These are groupings used in the aquarium hobby and not really groupings that fit with scientific classification.
All lake Malawi cichlids in the hobby are Haplochromines ( belong to the tribe Haplochromini) and are thought to have a single common ancestor (monophyletic). There are actually a few Tilapines in Lake Malawi, but none are really in the hobby.
Mbuna generally refer to elongated fish that live and feed above the rocky areas. They are not a monphyletic group as DNA studies have shown some to be more closely related to peacocks and/or haps then they are to other mbuna. Aquarists distinguish these from other Haplochromines primarily on their body shape and by the fact that many hobbyists have become very familiar with all of the genera.
Peacocks are a monphyletic grouping as they are all members of the same genus, Aulonocara. In terms of appearance the distinction in look from "Haps" is not always so obvious, nor easy to explain with words, but as one becomes very familiar with the genus, aquarists recognize them as members of the Aulonocara genus. Aulonocara are more closely related to mbuna, then they are to at least some "Haps".
Malawi "Haps" are generally those fish that used to be in the genus, Haplochromis. They are recognized by hobbyists primarily by their deeper body shape. Over the last 40 years or so, these fish were removed from the genus Haplochromis, and placed in a multitude of genera. Today there are no Haps from lake Malawi remaining in the genus Haplochromis. This genus is made up of Haplochromine fish from outside of lake Malawi of what I would refer to as "victorian-types".
"Haps" are found through out lake Malawi, though they are some what more associated with sandy areas or really deep water, and some what less so from rocky areas (which mbuna are almost exclusively associated with).
Thanks, a little above my head, but I will work my through it. I guess the best thing is to know before you go into a store, what you want.
 

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If the scientific name is not on the tank, about face and leave the LFS. Don't buy from an assorted tank and think twice if all they give you is the common name.

You can glance through the genus names in the profiles here...all Aulonocara have the same genus name. Haps have genus names like Copadichromis, Protomelas, Placidochromis, etc.

That should help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
DJRansome said:
If the scientific name is not on the tank, about face and leave the LFS. Don't buy from an assorted tank and think twice if all they give you is the common name.

You can glance through the genus names in the profiles here...all Aulonocara have the same genus name. Haps have genus names like Copadichromis, Protomelas, Placidochromis, etc.

That should help.
Yes, Thanks

The store is a two store chain (true Mom and Pop pet store). I knew the original owner back 30 years ago, I bought my last 110 from him and I feel so allegiance to them.

My choices are limited, I have Petco, Country Max, Pet World (the Mom & Pop store).

1) I have read about online fish, is that an option? The obvious question is who is GOOD.

2) Once the tank is cycled, do I buy a bunch of fish, or start with lets say Synodontis iucipinnis?
 

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I would stock all at once. Mom or Pop may have the scientific name, even if they don't label the tanks with the names. Or they may be willing to order fish by scientific name for you from their wholesaler.

I order 99% of my fish online (the rest I buy from hobbyists I know well). Members can PM you with recommendations, you can PM them or you can look at Retailer Reviews.
 

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BC in SK said:
These are groupings used in the aquarium hobby and not really groupings that fit with scientific classification.
All lake Malawi cichlids in the hobby are Haplochromines ( belong to the tribe Haplochromini) and are thought to have a single common ancestor (monophyletic). There are actually a few Tilapines in Lake Malawi, but none are really in the hobby.
Mbuna generally refer to elongated fish that live and feed above the rocky areas. They are not a monphyletic group as DNA studies have shown some to be more closely related to peacocks and/or haps then they are to other mbuna. Aquarists distinguish these from other Haplochromines primarily on their body shape and by the fact that many hobbyists have become very familiar with all of the genera.
Peacocks are a monphyletic grouping as they are all members of the same genus, Aulonocara. In terms of appearance the distinction in look from "Haps" is not always so obvious, nor easy to explain with words, but as one becomes very familiar with the genus, aquarists recognize them as members of the Aulonocara genus. Aulonocara are more closely related to mbuna, then they are to at least some "Haps".
Malawi "Haps" are generally those fish that used to be in the genus, Haplochromis. They are recognized by hobbyists primarily by their deeper body shape. Over the last 40 years or so, these fish were removed from the genus Haplochromis, and placed in a multitude of genera. Today there are no Haps from lake Malawi remaining in the genus Haplochromis. This genus is made up of Haplochromine fish from outside of lake Malawi of what I would refer to as "victorian-types".
"Haps" are found through out lake Malawi, though they are some what more associated with sandy areas or really deep water, and some what less so from rocky areas (which mbuna are almost exclusively associated with).
Excellent post, and a nice summary of a complex issue. :thumb:
 

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If you have to buy the fish one group at a time for some reason, Synodontis last as they are the most sensitive to toxins in the water. Least aggressive group first so they have an advantage. Wait between additions so beneficial organisms can grow to support the new bioload. Quarantine each new group to be added in a separate tank for 3 weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
DJRansome said:
If you have to buy the fish one group at a time for some reason, Synodontis last as they are the most sensitive to toxins in the water. Least aggressive group first so they have an advantage. Wait between additions so beneficial organisms can grow to support the new bioload. Quarantine each new group to be added in a separate tank for 3 weeks.
The reason I was wondering about how many fish to put in was would the biolaod be to much for all at once?

I would very much like to receive by PM recommendations for online purchase of fish.

Getting closer to that point as the cycle has started in my tank.

Thanks
 

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If you cycle with ammonia and your beneficial organisms can process 4ppm of added ammonia to zero (and nitrite=0) within 24 hours, then the bacteria can handle the entire bioload. This is a benefit of cycling with ammonia. PM sent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
DJRansome said:
If you cycle with ammonia and your beneficial organisms can process 4ppm of added ammonia to zero (and nitrite=0) within 24 hours, then the bacteria can handle the entire bioload. This is a benefit of cycling with ammonia. PM sent.
Dr.Tim want's three days in a row that after adding the equivalent of 2PPM ammonia to the tank the ammonia and Nitrite are 0.

Starting to think on fish.

one recommendation was a group of Labeotropheus trewavasae

When I look in the Species Profiles I find multiple enters?

Labeotropheus trewavasae (Chadagha)
Labeotropheus trewavasae (Chilumba)
Labeotropheus trewavasae (Domwe Is.)
Labeotropheus trewavasae (Likoma)
Labeotropheus trewavasae (Maleri)
Labeotropheus trewavasae (Manda)
Labeotropheus trewavasae (Mpanga) Mpanga Red
Labeotropheus trewavasae (Ntekete)
Labeotropheus trewavasae (Pombo Rocks)
Labeotropheus trewavasae (West Thumbi Is.)
Labeotropheus trewavasae (Zimbawe)
 

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Different collection points. All look different. Look at the pics in each profile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
DJRansome said:
Different collection points. All look different. Look at the pics in each profile.
I did, and that is what got me going.

I have been plugging in the names and watching YouTube based on the name.

Turns out, I think, not only do you need the name but the collection point in-order to get the fish I have been looking at on You tube. I guess what I am saying is if I order online by name the fish I get may be correct, but not the fish I expected.

I know the LFS fish will be young.

Which brings up another topic. I like watching the young fish develop (buying before you can sex).

Is that just to dangerous in the mix you might end up with?

It seems just a little weird to go out and buy so much of this and so much of that to end up with a tank that has adult fish purchased to spec.?

Does that approach to stocking the tank make any sense at all?
 

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I didn't follow this part.
if I order online by name the fish I get may be correct, but not the fish I expected.
The picture in the CF profile and the picture the vendor provides should match. Are you saying that the youtube people are mislabeling their fish?

With mbuna the usual practice is to buy unsexed juveniles and rehome extra males as required. If your LFS works with Lake Malawi cichlids this should not be a surprise to them. A good LFS will take your extra fish for wholesale prices and give you store credit.

Or you sell at a local club auction or to a fellow hobbyist.
 
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