Fish choices

408 Views 34 Replies 4 Participants Last post by djr955, 22 h ago

djr955

Discussion Starter · 4 d ago

I am in the process of building up my list of wants/needs for a new, first for me, Malawi tank.
The tank will be a 450l (118.4 US Gal), 150 x 50 x 66cm (60”x 20”base. +/- 26” depth).

I plan a relatively peaceful mixed mbuna tank.

For the size shown how many fish total can I consider?

Initially, the fish are likely to be 5-6cm (2” or so) and I plan to set up using the supplied internal filter but uprating the pump to 1500l/hr.
The internal filter has 11l (2.9US gal) filter volume and, as the fish and bio load increases, I would add an external canister, (probably an Aquael Ultramax 2000 - 2000l/hr). I recon this would give approx x8 turnover. Eventually I might rip out the internal filter and add a second can but that will depend on need. The tank comes with the internal filter as part of the package.

My hope is for variety and colour.

My initial thoughts were, dependant on numbers/suitability/compatibility;

Pseudotropheus Acei Yellow fin

Labidochromis Caeruleus yellow Kakusa

Metriaclima Callainos Nkhata Bay or Metriaclima Zebra Red (the one where I believe males are deep orange/red and females orange)

Melanochromis Cyaenorhabdos Maingano

With Synodontis Petricola Dwarf for fry clean up duty.

Is this a good mix, especially for a Malawi noob?

Any potential issues with these choices?

Any substitutes to consider bearing in mind I want variety/colour?

Would these all accept the same type of food ok?

For food I was thinking:

New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula -

Ingredients Whole Antarctic Krill, Giant squid, Wholemeal flour, Whole Menhad Fish, Ulva Seaweed, Chlorella Seaweed, Wakame Seaweed, Kelp, Garlic, Ginger, Astaxanthin, Spirulina, Omega-3 Fish Oil, Marigold, Zeaxanthin, Capsanthine, Eucheuma cottonii, Chondrus c
Protein analysis (min): 37%, Fats (min): 8%, Fiber (max): 7%, Moisture (max): 10%, Ash (max): 10%

and/or

Origin Aquatic Nutrition Veggie Supreme Flake -

Ingredients Spirulina, Chlorella, spinach, high-quality fishmeal, fish oil, mollusks and shellfish, cereals, dried yeast, sodium alginate, soy lecithin, vitamins and minerals.
Protein 39%, Fat 6%, Crude fiber 2.5%, Ash 6%

All thoughts welcome!

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DJRansome

· #2 · 4 d ago

The species sound good, except avoid red zebra with yellow labs...they crossbreed. And Metriaclima callainos will work, but color is similar to acei if you are looking for contrast. There is a Metriaclima callainos Pearl for a white morph.

Go with 1m:4f of each mbuna except maingano...1m:7f for those. Five Synodontis lucipinnis (a.k.a. dwarf petricola). NLS for sure.

Reactions: 1

oldcatfish

· #3 · 4 d ago

DJRansome said:
The species sound good, except avoid red zebra with yellow labs...they crossbreed. And Metriaclima callainos will work, but color is similar to acei if you are looking for contrast. There is a Metriaclima callainos Pearl for a white morph.

Go with 1m:4f of each mbuna except maingano...1m:7f for those. Five Synodontis lucipinnis (a.k.a. dwarf petricola). NLS for sure.

I agree almost 100% with the recommendations from DJRansome. Personally though, I prefer a larger growing Synodontis species When considering anything but the most peaceful mbuna. Lucipinnis tend to grow slowly compared to most mbuna. If you get Maingano, they are more intimidated by a fish that is equal sized or larger. You may not have any trouble between them and Lucipinnis, but your aquarium will be large enough to go with something like Multipunctuatus. That’s what I would go for.

knut_

· #4 · 4 d ago

The Metriaclima estherae aren't really red. The females are orange and the males are either orange (kind of like a creamsicle color) or orange-blue. I've never found one that is actually cherry red.

If you have a fully stocked tank plus synodontis, you likely wouldn't have to worry too much about fry surviving anyway. Just don't distribute fry from the tank if any do manage to survive. I personally like red zebras much better than the cobalt zebras I've had. I have found them to have a much nicer color and be somewhat less aggressive, although your experience may differ from mine.

For others who have similar questions: Are there any recommendations for a low-aggresion blue mbuna? I know that socolofi have a bit of an aggressive reputation, but what about Cynotilapia sp "Hara"?

djr955

Discussion Starter · #5 · 4 d ago

knut_ said:
The Metriaclima estherae aren't really red.

The place I was looking online had Estherae listed separately from the Zebra Red’s but if they are going to crossbreed with the labs, then I need to find an alternative.

DJRansome said:
Metriaclima callainos will work, but color is similar to acei if you are looking for contrast. There is a Metriaclima callainos Pearl for a white morph.

Some of the Acei I have seen vids of are a much deeper blue, not sure which area they are from though - will need to do more research. The Pearls sound interesting. The dealer I was looking at show Callainos White Nkhata Bay that are white with pale blue fins, though currently out of stock is no big deal for me right now.

Any other bright coloured options that would work?

DJRansome said:
Go with 1m:4f of each mbuna except maingano...1m:7f for those. Five Synodontis lucipinnis (a.k.a. dwarf petricola). NLS for sure.

So 23 plus the catfish? Is that a good stocking level for that tank?

Could they all be fed the same? What do you think of the feed options?

oldcatfish said:
but your aquarium will be large enough to go with something like Multipunctuatus

That would make them the biggest fish in there and maybe 50% bigger than some of the mbuna. Wouldn’t that be an issue?

I know nothing about these so advice gratefully received.

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oldcatfish

· #6 · 4 d ago

djr955 said:
The place I was looking online had Estherae listed separately from the Zebra Red’s but if they are going to crossbreed with the labs, then I need to find an alternative.

Some of the Acei I have seen vids of are a much deeper blue, not sure which area they are from though - will need to do more research. The Pearls sound interesting. The dealer I was looking at show Callainos White Nkhata Bay that are white with pale blue fins, though currently out of stock is no big deal for me right now.

Any other bright coloured options that would work?

So 23 plus the catfish? Is that a good stocking level for that tank?

Could they all be fed the same? What do you think of the feed options?

That would make them the biggest fish in there and maybe 50% bigger than some of the mbuna. Wouldn’t that be an issue?

I know nothing about these so advice gratefully received.

Yes, they will get a bit bigger than the mbuna. That’s exactly what you want. It will discourage a particular boisterous cichlid from trying to bully them. Most Synodontis species have a less aggressive attitude towards other fish than a Malawi cichlid, but they will certainly retaliate. Think of the mbuna as a schoolyard bully. Much less likely to even TRY to bully a larger fish.

knut_

· #7 · 4 d ago

You could also do white labs with red zebras.

I had Ps. acei "Luwala Reef" with cobalt zebras (Metriaclima callainos Nkhata bay) and they looked nothing alike, but this may depend on your collection point. The acei were sort of tan and then dark violet as they colored up, and the callainos were a light blue/gray.

djr955

Discussion Starter · #8 · 3 d ago

oldcatfish said:
Yes, they will get a bit bigger than the mbuna. That’s exactly what you want. It will discourage a particular boisterous cichlid from trying to bully them. Most Synodontis species have a less aggressive attitude towards other fish than a Malawi cichlid, but they will certainly retaliate. Think of the mbuna as a schoolyard bully. Much less likely to even TRY to bully a larger fish.

So would you wait to add the bigger cat’s until the mbuna are grown or…..?

So how big are the multi’s likely to get in a tank? Doing some web trawling I am getting some vastly different numbers! Some claim max of 6” others 10” plus. (Personally I don’t want 10” fish.)

djr955

Discussion Starter · #9 · 3 d ago

knut_ said:
You could also do white labs with red zebras.

I want the yellows in there - they are the fish that drew me to Malawi set up in the first place - those and the yellow tails.

Reactions: 1

DJRansome

· #10 · 3 d ago

The multifasciatus are a great choice as well...even better for fry patrol. Still get 5. Planet Catfish does say 10.8 inches...I have some that are at least 17 years old and if they are 7 inches it is a lot.

djr955

Discussion Starter · #11 · 3 d ago

Any thoughts on Synodontis Polli White? Nice looking fish - any good for fry catching?

DJRansome

· #12 · 3 d ago

The fact that it has the word "white" makes me think hybrid...a negative for me. Although Planet Catfish says they have at least one documented example collected from the lake. They are fine for fry catching...I found polli a little more reclusive than the lucipinnis or multipunctatus.

Know that some breeders use cruel methods to breed large numbers of Synodontis...for multipunctatus or polli you probably want to buy only wild caught to ensure no Synodontis were injured or killed to produce your fish.

djr955

Discussion Starter · #13 · 3 d ago (Edited)

Yeh I read on Planet Catfish that the guy writing the article had personally caught wild ones in the lake, but thought they may be a species that has been utilised to make hybrids.

I also read on another site that they act quite differently to the standard Polli and that provided you have a group, they are quite active and are not shy. They also reckon that there were in fact wild specimens out there.

A third site suggested the same (available to a degree in the wild) but stated that they had been bread quite extensively specifically to bring out the whiter colouring.

Apparently they don’t cuckoo breed but spawn normally, although are quite partial totheir own eggs! Not sure if that means they would also be partial to someone else’s fry?

The place I am looking online at fish to buy was recommended to me by another board member for the quality of their fish - not been there yet to talk to them but hopefully they are fussy about their breeders/suppliers.

They show wild caught Petricola’s on their site - but they are x3 the cost of F1 Multipunctatis

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DJRansome

· #14 · 3 d ago

I have not seen true petricola for dozens of years. All the fish sold to me as petricola over the years have turned out to ge lucipinnis, tanganicae, etc. I would question this ID and this vendor.

Multipunctatus are not rare so OK to buy wild caught. I would say the opposite about polli white, I would not buy wild caught because they are rare or tank raised because of questionable spawning practices. No way to know really, best to avoid.

djr955

Discussion Starter · #15 · 3 d ago

The Petricola’s are the ones stated to be wild caught, the Multi’s are F1’s.The white Pollis I would assume to be bred.
They are selling the wild caught Perti’s at €45 each. The F1 Multis are selling at €14.50 each.

As of this moment I have no reason to question their claims. Also bear in mind I’m not in the US.
This is a family run business thats been operating since the 70’s - if the were ripping folks off I doubt very much they would still be in business 50 years on!

oldcatfish

· #16 · 3 d ago

djr955 said:
So would you wait to add the bigger cat’s until the mbuna are grown or…..?

So how big are the multi’s likely to get in a tank? Doing some web trawling I am getting some vastly different numbers! Some claim max of 6” others 10” plus. (Personally I don’t want 10” fish.)

Some fish species get larger in nature and some tend to get larger in an aquarium. Mbuna tend to get quite a bit larger in an aquarium than in nature. Food source is one of the main reasons. On the other hand, Kissing Gourami can get close to a foot in nature, but rarely get more than 6 or 7 inches in an aquarium.
Same with Blue Acaras. They usually get much larger in nature.
Most Synodontis species don’t get as large in an aquarium as they do in nature. Multipunctuatus usually get about 6 inches not counting the tail fin.

oldcatfish

· #17 · 3 d ago

I would buy juveniles of both cichlids and catfish if you can. Cheaper and they will both be more likely to get used to each other without issues. They can grow up together. Adults of both may have already developed territorial personalities.

djr955

Discussion Starter · #18 · 3 d ago

The cichlids here seem to be sold from 2” or so, so probably around that size for all. Not sure about the cats but would hope to get appropriate sized.

Any thoughts on Synodontis Polli White? Nice looking fish - any good for fry catching?

oldcatfish

· #19 · 3 d ago

djr955 said:
The cichlids here seem to be sold from 2” or so, so probably around that size for all. Not sure about the cats but would hope to get appropriate sized.

Any thoughts on Synodontis Polli White? Nice looking fish - any good for fry catching?

I have never kept that Synodontis species. It’s hard to say for sure, but here’s a basic guideline that seems to be the case with the numerous Synodontis species that I have owned. The ones that tend to have a natural diet of snails, invertebrate, etc., seem to be more predatory than the ones that have a natural diet of algae, debris, etc. They are all opportunistic though.
The best fry control fish that I have ever used in Mbuna aquariums have been the South American Doradid catfish sold as “spotted Raphael“ and the “Electric Blue Hap” Scianochromis Fryeri. Both are predatory in nature. I am not necessarily suggesting those to you, but they both do a better job at eating mbuna fry than any Synodontis that I have owned.

DJRansome

· #20 · 2 d ago

For another view, I have Synodontis in all my tanks (no polli ATM) and never have survivor fry.

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