[Deeda]

@karpomatic1 , I'm sorry to hear of that issue with USPS but don't despair quite yet. It sounds as if your packing procedure was just fine so should ensure the fish arrive in good condition even after a couple days. The only curious thing was why the buyer wanted a heat pack at this time of year as that is usually reserved for colder months of the year.

 

[karpomatic1]

@karpomatic1 , I'm sorry to hear of that issue with USPS but don't despair quite yet. It sounds as if your packing procedure was just fine so should ensure the fish arrive in good condition even after a couple days. The only curious thing was why the buyer wanted a heat pack at this time of year as that is usually reserved for colder months of the year.

I asked about that as well but it's getting into the mid 50s at night in his area.

 

[karpomatic1]

Still no update on the package. The deadline was an hour ago. The receiver started an inquiry on his end. This is so aggravating.

 

[Auballagh]

Yikes!
This is turning into a nightmare. But, on the flip side... @Deeda is right in that even large fish will have really good shipping outcomes if set up and packed out right. The way you prepped out those Uaru's and then packed them up for shipping, sounds very good to me. The delay of a day or so, should not cause a disaster.
I've been out of the fish shipping game for a while now. But, I am still actively breeding and shipping baby (and sometimes adult sized) Boa constrictor longicauda, (smaller, rare locality, Boa Constrictors). Unfortunately, I have to use the shipping license of these guys when doing that through FedEx.

Ship Your Reptiles - Ship Live Reptiles Easily, Securely and Affordably

Reptile shipping- Ship live reptiles including snakes and lizards securely and affordably with Ship Your Reptiles

shipyourreptiles.com

And yes... I still purchase and charge for the insurance ($$$). But, after almost 10 years of using that outfit, I've never had a single shipping problem.

 

[karpomatic1]

I've gotten two updates overnight. At 115am it left a USPS facility that it was never scanned into. Then at 519am it arrived at what I assume is the destination post office. Fingers crossed.

Update - It's out for delivery!

 

[karpomatic1]

Yikes!
This is turning into a nightmare. But, on the flip side... @Deeda is right in that even large fish will have really good shipping outcomes if set up and packed out right. The way you prepped out those Uaru's and then packed them up for shipping, sounds very good to me. The delay of a day or so, should not cause a disaster.
I've been out of the fish shipping game for a while now. But, I am still actively breeding and shipping baby (and sometimes adult sized) Boa constrictor longicauda, (smaller, rare locality, Boa Constrictors). Unfortunately, I have to use the shipping license of these guys when doing that through FedEx.

Ship Your Reptiles - Ship Live Reptiles Easily, Securely and Affordably

Reptile shipping- Ship live reptiles including snakes and lizards securely and affordably with Ship Your Reptiles

shipyourreptiles.com

And yes... I still purchase and charge for the insurance ($$$). But, after almost 10 years of using that outfit, I've never had a single shipping problem.

I've looked at their website before. Another seller in one of the FB groups told me about Pirate Shipping yesterday. I'm looking into them as well. He said he's had no issues and shipped with them over 30 times. They have some kind of deal with USPS and UPS for low rates. I may test them with 2 uaru I have to ship on Monday.

 

[karpomatic1]

So not a happy ending. USPS damaged the box which led to one of the bags leaking. One Uaru died. The other two he says look a little rough but will probably make it. The customer is pushing for a complete refund as he thinks the male died, but I've offered to refund the one dead fish or replace it with a few smaller ones. The deal was live arrival and two arrived alive so they're his. He has not responded yet.

You can see in the photo that the Styrofoam box is broken in every corner.

 

[Auballagh]

Holy ^%!*#....
That box looks like they had used it in a freaking Rugby Scrum or something. Man, if they hadn't handled/abused it so badly, that Uaru would definitely still be alive.

 

[karpomatic1]

I refunded the customer the cost of the DOA.

 

[DJRansome]

Aw. Usually I pick up deliveries at the airport, and once/twice overnight Fedex.

 

[karpomatic1]

The buyer submitted a dispute with PayPal as I was expecting but hoping he wouldn't do, even after I reimbursed him for the DOA fish. I immediately responded by upping it to a claim for PayPal to work out because I know there can be no resolution between us. Now, if I get the money, it will be minus the arbitration fee and I won't see it for 30 days. Such bull****.

 

[Auballagh]

Communication with encrypted military, green side radios (or with a lot of things), can sometimes be a tricky business.
Nothing works some days - until for some reason - the da** thing does. So, I'm not sure what you can try here.
Have you offered to send him another adult size Uarau? Do you have another one you can send? Maybe he's pissed because all he (really) - wants, is just a trio of adult-size Uaru?

 

[Aussieman57]

The buyer submitted a dispute with PayPal as I was expecting but hoping he wouldn't do, even after I reimbursed him for the DOA fish. I immediately responded by upping it to a claim for PayPal to work out because I know there can be no resolution between us. Now, if I get the money, it will be minus the arbitration fee and I won't see it for 30 days. Such bull****.

You are a new business. What you do now is very important to your reputation as a breeder. The delivery was a disaster to put it mildly. Not your fault obviously but still a mess. 1 fish obviously DOA. The others went through the meat grinder getting there and as the buyer complained they may not make it due to the shipping problems. When I was a "large" breeder and something like this happened, I would eat the costs, replace the fish with shipping included or refund entire transaction per the buyers wishes. Yeah, you lose a little $$ but you keep the buyer happy and get a rep as a great seller/breeder which only helps to build and strengthen your business. The alternative is get dragged through the proverbial mud, go through PayPal or credit card arbitration ****, receive some really bad feedback, and have this buyer complain to the world via internet about his bad experience with you. Even though the post office screwed the pooch on this one you will receive the ultimate blame.
As soon as I saw you post this....

USPS damaged the box which led to one of the bags leaking. One Uaru died. The other two he says look a little rough but will probably make it. The customer is pushing for a complete refund as he thinks the male died, but I've offered to refund the one dead fish or replace it with a few smaller ones. The deal was live arrival and two arrived alive so they're his. He has not responded yet. You can see in the photo that the Styrofoam box is broken in every corner.

I knew that this would end badly. And yes, I know that DOA only get reimbursed per your agreement, that other breeders also do this, and it has become the norm, but this particular circumstance has some obvious mitigating factors such as fish stuck in transit for prolonged time, smashed box, and an angry customer. You are running a new, fledgling business that is just starting to get established. I firmly believe you made a big mistake here.

 

[karpomatic1]

Communication with encrypted military, green side radios (or with a lot of things), can sometimes be a tricky business.
Nothing works some days - until for some reason - the da** thing does. So, I'm not sure what you can try here.
Have you offered to send him another adult size Uaru? Do you have another one you can send? Maybe he's pissed because all he (really) - wants, is just a trio of adult-size Uaru?

Unfortunately, I don't have any adults that I'm willing to send. I offered him a few smaller fish but he did not respond.

 

[Aussieman57]

Just give him a refund and be done with it. Then you can get back to business as usual.

 

[karpomatic1]

You are a new business. What you do now is very important to your reputation as a breeder. The delivery was a disaster to put it mildly. Not your fault obviously but still a mess. 1 fish obviously DOA. The others went through the meat grinder getting there and as the buyer complained they may not make it due to the shipping problems. When I was a "large" breeder and something like this happened, I would eat the costs, replace the fish with shipping included or refund entire transaction per the buyers wishes. Yeah, you lose a little $$ but you keep the buyer happy and get a rep as a great seller/breeder which only helps to build and strengthen your business. The alternative is get dragged through the proverbial mud, go through PayPal or credit card arbitration ****, receive some really bad feedback, and have this buyer complain to the world via internet about his bad experience with you. Even though the post office screwed the pooch on this one you will receive the ultimate blame.
As soon as I saw you post this....

USPS damaged the box which led to one of the bags leaking. One Uaru died. The other two he says look a little rough but will probably make it. The customer is pushing for a complete refund as he thinks the male died, but I've offered to refund the one dead fish or replace it with a few smaller ones. The deal was live arrival and two arrived alive so they're his. He has not responded yet. You can see in the photo that the Styrofoam box is broken in every corner.

I knew that this would end badly. And yes, I know that DOA only get reimbursed per your agreement, that other breeders also do this, and it has become the norm, but this particular circumstance has some obvious mitigating factors such as fish stuck in transit for prolonged time, smashed box, and an angry customer. You are running a new, fledgling business that is just starting to get established. I firmly believe you made a big mistake here.

So I'm supposed to just take it on the chin and move on? You're right, it is a fledgling business that can't afford to take a $500+ hit. He should get all his money back, keep the fish that are still alive and I get the shaft? No. He says he's a professional and has been selling African cichlids for 20 years. So, I have no doubt that the fish will recover if he cares for them. Then he'll probably sell them and make more money. One doesn't even look sick or damaged. The photos he submitted to PayPal are below.

 

[DJRansome]

Aussieman is right. Look at it as an investment in your business, in goodwill which is invaluable, even if the customer is not giving you any.

 

[karpomatic1]

I understand what everyone is saying. I'd probably have let it go if was $100 or maybe even $200 but I just can't for over $500. It's in PayPal's and the USPS's hands now. I just can't give him a full refund and let him keep the fish. I just can't.

 

[karpomatic1]

USPS approved my claim as I expected them to do. Only issue with that is I didn't insure it so just the $100. Live and learn. PayPal has also judged in my favor so all in all I'm out about $78. I can only assume the other two Uaru are still alive and recovering as he has not contacted me.

I'm testing Pirate Shipping today for an order that is staying in state. UPS NDA by 10am insured for $23.

Reminder that I'll be at a fish swap this Sunday in Mountain Top, PA. Come get some Uaru or Geophagus Tapajos.