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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys
I’m getting a few cyps (15-20 1-1.5 inch Non Jumbo – Ikola) this week. I have a 35 Gal I set up a few days ago for quarantine with an established filter (Emperor 280). Rocks and sand are from the old set-up, as well as about 15 gallons of water from the previous set-up. The lighting will be supplied from the tank next to it, so it will be very subdued.
I have 2 pieces of slate up against the glass on either end, and the rest of the tank is open.
Is this a good set-up for a few weeks.
The breeder is a trusted source. I’m just scared they will get stressed out, and I don’t want to medicate the entire 65Gal they will eventually go into.

Is this a good set-up/idea to keep them in?
 

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If the tank was set up "a few days ago" and hasn't had fish in it, all that established bacteria is probably starved and dead. Best to throw the filter back on your main tank and move it over only once you have the new fish.

Regarding how they'll fare in the tank - can't help you there.
 

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If it’s literally 3 days since the bacteria had ammonia to feed on, they didn’t die off. Nonetheless, I’d add some bottled ammonia to the tank to be sure that you successfully seeded the tank as it’s always better to test and verify.
 

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Uh- not exactly. These bacteria can survive for several weeks and ammonia is not necessary right now for this tank and situation. Although leaving the filter on an established tank isn't a bad idea, and it's an excellent idea to be monitoring water quality twice a day as they get settled though.

Keeping the lights low, and disturbance to a minimum will help them settle in. Also, do not feed for at least 24 hours, and after that, feed very lightly (once a day, no more than they can finish in 30 seconds).

Good luck!
 

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triscuit said:
Uh- not exactly. These bacteria can survive for several weeks and ammonia is not necessary right now for this tank and situation.
Interesting. I had always heard that they need a pretty steady source of food or they die quickly. The more you know!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the advice. I always thought the bacteria would be OK for a few days without any fish. However thanks to your comments I took out a few liters of water and replaced it with water from my other tank. I did this last night when I got home, and this morning before I came to work.
This also got me thinking that since this is an Emperor 280 with a bio wheel, I can swap out the wheel with a bio-wheel from my Emperor 400. I also keep small sponges in my Aquaclear that I can be moved over.

I’ll feed them as you suggested Triscuit.
I’ve never had these before and would rather be a little cautious.
 

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It makes me feel safer to add the ammonia if I have an empty tank for more than 2 days. I have read (with surprise) Dr. Tim's explanations that they bacteria are pretty hardy and may sort of hibernate if there is no food for a while. The flip side is sometimes they apparently die off for no apparent reason (superstitous villager here?) causing a spike. So why not pamper them a little?

The new cyps are in a 35G quarantine...not the 65G tank, right? I quarantine for 3 weeks. Triscuit, do you think it would hurt the 65G to feed ammonia during the 3-week quarantine/no-fish period?
 

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I'm not sure the 65 doesn't already have fish in it...? If not, then I suggest just bringing the filter from the 35 when the fish are moved.

The good news is that cyps are pretty tough- given they are provided with clean water and sufficient places to hide. It doesn't sound like the 35 has enough cover- I suggest adding some structure to the middle of the tank- some large conch shells, a few fake plants- a flower pot, just something for them to hide in and around.

A few things I'd like to clarify, though-

  • Adding water from an established tank is not an effective means of transferring helpful bacteria- don't bother; instead, grab the dirty gunky filter media the day before you get the new fish. Substrate also harbors a good amount of bacteria but not as much as filter media.

    Swapping a well established filter onto a brand new tank with a similar bioload prevents the new tank from needing to be cycled. Transferring the filter media into a new filter works just as well. Just plan ahead and make sure the old filter is good and dirty when it's time to share bacteria.

    Once present, the bacterial colonies can expand rapidly, can go dormant for lack of food, and can "wake up" when food is available again. Bacteria are highly adaptable and hardy, and I think folks get a bit paranoid about the cycling process. Three weeks with no food- you'll lose some bacteria, but there will still be some hangers-on that will wake up.

    Three days with no fresh food sources are barely a nap for the bacteria. I wouldn't encourage a novice to mess with ammonia anywhere near the time period that new fish are expected. I wouldn't encourage a knowledgeable hobbyist to mess with ammonia unless there was a disease outbreak necessitating a fishless cycle. If there is a healthy, established tank with a good filter, just swap out the media onto the new tank.

    Feeding lightly has a few benefits- it's easier on the fish and it allows the biofilter time to adjust. Quite a few acclimation and cycling problems are related to overfeeding.
 

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triscuit said:
I wouldn't encourage a novice to mess with ammonia anywhere near the time period that new fish are expected.
Fair point.

triscuit said:
I wouldn't encourage a knowledgeable hobbyist to mess with ammonia unless there was a disease outbreak necessitating a fishless cycle. If there is a healthy, established tank with a good filter, just swap out the media onto the new tank.
Disagree a bit here. However, I have been told I'm paranoid. :D I would rather test out the bio-filter with some ammonia before any fish are in the tank. That way I know what I'm getting myself into.
 

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Another suggestion for maintaining bacteria is to feed the tank every *other* day, the same amount you would feed with your normal fish level. I've done this successfully. In fact, you actually will need to maintain your water changes per schedule with this approach as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi everyone I checked my water parameters last night and they seem consistant with my other tanks.

Yes the 65 gal has fish in it currently. I plan to do a tank shuffle (move fish around), and sell some, before the cyps go into the 65.

I am going to pick-up the fish tonight after dinner. As soon as I get home I will swap out the bio wheel and add the sponges from my other filter.

Thanks for all the input.
I'll keep you guys informed as to how this goes.
 

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I had two tanks (12 gallon) that I emptied of fish in May 2010. I just ran them without cleaning the filters and did nothing but top off water on occasion. I recently moved them down to my fish room. To one I added a goup of small shellies. I was confident (or reckless) that the organics in the filter would adequately feed the bacteria while the tank was empty. I didn't see any spikes of ammonia or nitrite after adding the fish. I decided to test the second tank, out of curiosty, and added ammonia to bring it up to a range of .25-.5ppm. Next day ammonia/nitrite was zero. These filters (Eheim Ecco's) weren't real grungy at all, but there were enough organics inside to break down and feed the ammonia. Forgot to mention that when I moved the tanks I did open the filters and rinse out the mechanical media and the can itself without disturbing the biomedia. So, these tanks went without fish for 7 months and still had a bacteria colony that could support a fish load due to the organics in the mechanical media of the filter. Your mileage may vary and it's always a good idea to test as I did with the second tank.

When moving just a filter to a new tank, I always test with ammonia and cycle, if needed, as I've found it necessary at times. A lot depends on the filter and how it's fitted with media and maintained.

My .02 FWIW
 

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Hi sorry to barge in but can I just ask one very similiar question, I am due to collect some cyps and paracyps at the end of the month, 4-5cm, would they be ok in a 20gall / 30" tank as quarentine before adding them to the main tank ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just an update
I picked the cyps up last night and got them in. I checked them this morning and they are all swimming together happily.
I picked these up from an other CF member Girthvader. He had a few really good tips for transporting. We put the fish in a bucket instead of bags. He also gave me some food to slowly wean them off. I've never had fish look so relaxed the next morning. Good guy, nice fish.

Kiriyama
A 20gal is good for quarantine, but it all depends on how many fish you are putting in it. At 4.5cm they are 1 3/4inches long. You might need a bigger tank if you have more then a couple.
 

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Kiriyama
A 20gal is good for quarantine, but it all depends on how many fish you are putting in it. At 4.5cm they are 1 3/4inches long. You might need a bigger tank if you have more then a couple.[/quote]

Good news on the new additions :thumb: Looking forward to seeing some pics :popcorn:
I thought the 20 gall would be a bit of a squeeze, I'm hoping to go view another tank early next week , five footer 450ltr :dancing: , cheers for the feedback :fish:
 
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