[mcorbeil]

Can anyone identify this cyprichromis variety?

Thanks gang! :fish:

 

[Furcifer158]

can you get a pic with there dorsal fin out.
they look like a blue flash, but that labels a few different variants
Here are few it might be

Cyprichromis Leptosoma "Kasanga"

Cyprichromis Leptosoma "Kigoma"

Cyprichromis Leptosoma "Mpulungu"

Cyprichromis Leptosoma "Kipili"

Jon-e

 

[Furcifer158]

Cyprichromis Leptosoma "Kekese" NONE Jumbo

Jon-e

 

[triscuit]

Looks like a blue flash variety... Here's mine from Chituta Bay: :thumb:

 

[mcorbeil]

Looks like a blue flash variety... Here's mine from Chituta Bay: :thumb:

They look exactly the same as yours triscut. I only have blue tailed males in my group.
My origional thought as that they were Mpulungu.

Thanks alot to everyone! and great pics! These fish are really hard to capture on film thanks for taking the time :thumb:

 

[triscuit]

Good, I'm glad we could help. FYI... I started with 3 WC bluetailed males, and in over 200 fry, I've managed to get ~10 yellow tailed males. Now, I have a second breeding group with just 3 of the better looking yellow guys, so that maybe I can get more yellow genes in the pool.

Enjoy!

 

[mcorbeil]

Only 10 out of 200 had yellow tails!?! Wow i had no idea the blue tailed gene was so dominant. I hear the blue tailed males are rarer anyway :lol:

My WC group is 2 blue tailed males and 3 females. They were sold to me as Utinta, but once i got them settled it was clear they were not. I've had them for about 3 months and they've had a few mouthfuls so far, so i've decided to keep them

Some yellow tails would definitely bring some missing color to the group. Once i 've grown out some fry i'll have to do some experiments with the different tail colors. Do you know if the gene carried by the male, or female? There are few quality resources on the net regarding cyprichromis, have you found any worthwhile sites besides this one

 

[gunther]

Nice pics of fish, whats the difference between the Kekese non jumbo and jumbo, Other than size?

 

[triscuit]

Only 10 out of 200 had yellow tails!?! Wow i had no idea the blue tailed gene was so dominant. I hear the blue tailed males are rarer anyway :lol:

I've sold some fry that were too young to tell, but that yellow tail becomes obvious pretty quickly. So, let's say I missed 5, so 15 out of 100 males (100 were likely female) isn't bad odds considering that the gene was unexpressed in my breeding group.

Do you know if the gene carried by the male, or female?

I actually have a yellow tailed female. :lol: It's yellow only when compared to the other females... very drab when compared to the males. I believe that she could be the mom of many of my YT males. I suspect that both males and females carry the gene, and since it's not particularly recessive (like albinism) it is just hit and miss depending on the particular genes each parent contributes.

Just for fun: I have 3 BT males, 7 females. Only 2 males bred regularly, so if one of them had the YT gene he would pass it on to half of his offspring (the other half would get his BT gene). I would get 25 YT males. So, I don't think my BT boys are passing it on. I got my ~200 fry from five females regularly (the other 2 occasionally). If 1 of those 5 females was passing on a YT gene, she would do so for half of her offspring and it would show up in half of the males: That's 200/5 = 40; 40/4 = 10 YT males.

 

[Darkside]

Only 10 out of 200 had yellow tails!?! Wow i had no idea the blue tailed gene was so dominant. I hear the blue tailed males are rarer anyway :lol:

I've sold some fry that were too young to tell, but that yellow tail becomes obvious pretty quickly. So, let's say I missed 5, so 15 out of 100 males (100 were likely female) isn't bad odds considering that the gene was unexpressed in my breeding group.

Do you know if the gene carried by the male, or female?

I actually have a yellow tailed female. :lol: It's yellow only when compared to the other females... very drab when compared to the males. I believe that she could be the mom of many of my YT males. I suspect that both males and females carry the gene, and since it's not particularly recessive (like albinism) it is just hit and miss depending on the particular genes each parent contributes.

Just for fun: I have 3 BT males, 7 females. Only 2 males bred regularly, so if one of them had the YT gene he would pass it on to half of his offspring (the other half would get his BT gene). I would get 25 YT males. So, I don't think my BT boys are passing it on. I got my ~200 fry from five females regularly (the other 2 occasionally). If 1 of those 5 females was passing on a YT gene, she would do so for half of her offspring and it would show up in half of the males: That's 200/5 = 40; 40/4 = 10 YT males.

You're assuming its sex linked?

 

[triscuit]

You're assuming its sex linked?

I'm not sure I understand the question. But, I'll try anyway. It's been a few years since undergrad genetics : From my observations and breeding efforts, I think that either sex can pass on the genes necessary for YT males. I have no evidence other than rough estimates of the gene prevalence in my group's offspring. In the tradition of Mendel and his peas, I'm trying to guess the genetic makeup of the parents from the genetic expressions in the offspring.

I'm waiting for a geneticist to chime in here... :lol:

 

[Darkside]

Assuming that ratio that you're describing is correct, that could be the case. The YT gene could be on that X chromosome. It would have to be a) dominant and b) on that sex chromosome. This way all the males would have a 50% chance of inheriting the YT X chromosome from a heterozygous mother and inheriting only the Y chromosome from their father they would express the YT phenotype.

In the case of the YT female, she should then be homozygous for the YT genes and all males that she produces will have the YT phenotype. Daughters of the YT female and YT males should also express the YT phenotype (if possible). It would mean that some of your blue tailed females are heterozygous for the YT gene.

I don't necessarily think that's the case, but it could but I suppose it could be.

 

[mcorbeil]

I think you guys are gonna save me years of research at this rate LOL! Let me get this straight. Do blue tailed males carry the genes for both YT and BT?

Is it possible to know what tail color gene the female is carrying?

Triscut . if your YT female were to mate with a YT male, would they only produce YT offspring? Or would there simply be a smaller chance of BT males?

I'll have to brush up on my Biology LOL! :lol:

Fascinating discussion! :fish:

 

[triscuit]

opcorn: Please keep in mind that I have not done a serious scientific study with my fish... I am drawing on coincidence and conjectures. :lol:

I want to hear from someone who has been breeding with YT males: what do the male offspring exhibit? Just as my BT males threw YT offspring, I assume the reverse is true. I also want to know a little more about wild population ratios for YT and BT males.

Where are the experts? :lol:

 

[Furcifer158]

OK so here is a wild group of Kekese Cyp's non jumbo

The yellow gene is not more dominate than the blue gene nor is the blue gene more dominate then the yellow. Its just a 50/50 chance that you will get one or the other. You do have to think of this, maybe you have a blue tailed male and your breeding it with a female that has the blue tail gene that is more dominate then the yellow. You will get more blue tails then yellow. With that same goes if you have a yellow tailed male breeding with a female that has the strong yellow gene over the blue, you will get more yellow tailed males. Its too bad we can't see what the females genes are or it would be easier to predict what color tailed males you will be breeding. Also If you think of it a group of cyp's in the wild there are thousands of them so the all so mixed up, in terms of genes, that they can breed over and over with different females that there will never be a gene that is more dominate than the other. Each Cyp is different, some have the blue tailed gene that is more dominate then the yellow and visa versa. That's it
Hope it makes sense to you

Jon-e

 

[mcorbeil]

I'd be interested in knowing what kind of range Cyprichromis have in the lake. What are the barriers that keep these populations distinct>? Do they have "spawning grounds" or a location they will frequent? I know they are an open water fish, but where are they going ?LOL

:fish: :fish: :fish: :fish:
:fish: :fish:

 

[Darkside]

The yellow gene is not more dominate than the blue gene nor is the blue gene more dominate then the yellow. Its just a 50/50 chance that you will get one or the other. You do have to think of this, maybe you have a blue tailed male and your breeding it with a female that has the blue tail gene that is more dominate then the yellow. You will get more blue tails then yellow. With that same goes if you have a yellow tailed male breeding with a female that has the strong yellow gene over the blue, you will get more yellow tailed males. Its too bad we can't see what the females genes are or it would be easier to predict what color tailed males you will be breeding. Also If you think of it a group of cyp's in the wild there are thousands of them so the all so mixed up, in terms of genes, that they can breed over and over with different females that there will never be a gene that is more dominate than the other. Each Cyp is different, some have the blue tailed gene that is more dominate then the yellow and visa versa. That's it
Hope it makes sense to you

Jon-e

Where's the proof that there is a 50/50 chance? This doesn't fit the regular patterns of inheritance. Unless there has been a population genetics study of yellow tailed and blue tailed cyps it would be impossible to say for sure what the mode of inheritance demonstrates this phenotype. But I suspect that there may be a sex linked factor if there are more males with YT than females... much like Male pattern baldness or RG colour blindness.