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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, could someone please help and tell me the names of these fish. Thanks.










THis one has a light blue tint.




This one has a red head

 

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#1-?
#2- Melanochromis auratus
#3- Nimbochromis venustus
#4- Pseudotropheus crabro
#5- Pseudotropheus socolofi
#6- Nimbochromis livingstonii
#7- Aulonocara sp.?
#8- Metriaclima estherae
 

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OK... here is what I think:

1. Labidochromis Perlmutt (pretty sure)
2. Melanochromis
3. Nimbochromis Venustus
4. Maybe some sort of Hap
5. Pseudotropheus Socolofi
6. Nimbochromis Livingstonii
7. Some sort of Peacock (Aulonocara)
8. Metriaclima Estherae

Hope it helps
 

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Yeah #1 could be a Pearlmut. I have a couple that kind of resemble that one. I don't know maybe that's how they can look when they are not the best quality.
 

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Thanks for the pat on the back I like to help when I can.
 

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I am not sure the number of bars rules out a perlmutt... Mine has either 8 or 9 (hard to tell because they kinda interact with one another.) This one has 9, best I can tell. But now that you mention it, I do see some yellow on the top of his face, so maybe he is a Metriaclima hajomaylandi...

How agressive is he? I think the lab Perlmutt would be very very mild in comparison to the metriaclima...
 

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CichlidWhisperer said:
I am not sure the number of bars rules out a perlmutt... Mine has either 8 or 9
If yours have 8 or 9 bars, I would consider asking the seller exactly what they are, because they're not L. sp. "perlmutt".

L. sp. "perlmutt" should have 5 fairly wide bars, that taper downward towards the belly, some can have six but 5 is the desired number. Many are sold with an inverted bar in the mid-section, which is also an undesirable trait. They also have prominent black along their pelvic and anal fins.
 

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At first, they apear to have only 5, but if you look closer it is actually 8-9 (confusing from the connections between some.) Here's pic.s







The color is a little off on the last one, but I love that picture anyway!
 

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No disrespect CichlidWhisperer, but those are very poor examples of L. sp. "perlmutt" and I actually have to question their purity, the snout on the first two pictures isn't right; almost Melanochromis in shape.

Enjoy them to the fullest, but I wouldn't distribute any fry they may produce.

A better example of L. sp. "perlmutt".

Male.


Female
 

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I kinda knew you would answer saying they are poor examples. I really have issues with people commenting about fish being "poor quality" or "poor examples." He is simply beautiful and he has the best little personality. Since when do we judge living creatures as if they were some sort of "prize." OK, so some people do it with dogs and other animals, but that is simply not how I see them. I really do see them as part of my family. I do not "collect" them either for that matter. And, if one dies, I am upset.. Not because I lost the money I spent on it, but because it was a life and one that I cared about. No, it is not the same as a human life, but it is a life and it makes the world a better place. And no, I am not a right-to-lifer either, but simply love animals and what they give us is more than simply something pretty to look at that should be "ideal." Ideal is something made up that others are supposed to follow??? I don't think the ideal fish is the one in the book for that matter either... individuality makes them much better!

OK, so I said my peace... I hope you don't take it personally, it is not directed at you, simply something I have been wanting to say for a long time. (And, by the way, don't worry about breeding, I am trying to set up an all male tank.. that is, if the ladies would please stand up!)
 

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I was commenting on the fish, not you, or your tastes or ideas of what is considered beautiful. The fact that they don't fall into the category of what a L. sp. "perlmutt" are supposed to look is no reflection on your personality, so please don't take it as an insult. I'm stating a fact; that these fish are not the norm for this species and are quite likely to be hybrids.

"Ideal" is something that nature made up, not man and fish in the wild with abnormalities often don't reproduce or survive long enough to. The number of ideal fish in the wild, far outnumbers the ones with abnormal markings.

As I said, enjoy the fish. But whether you approve or not, there are standards that these fish have and there are abnormalities that many don't wish to see in their fish. This is true not only of fish but of anything that is judged on its appearance. The personality of the fish is irrelevant to those looking at pictures of what someone is presenting as an example of a particular fish.
 

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Hmmm.. Ideal is something man made up, not the wild.. The wild sustains abnormalities and welcomes them.. Afterall, isn't that how we got the many beautiful species of cichlids in the first place! Nature values diversity to fill different ecological niches. That is the whole concept of evolution.

I don't take what you said as judging me by any means, you judged the fish, not me. I was surprised you took my response as such though. But, you are judging another living creature by some standard that is a man-made standard. Who knows what is developing in the wild. True, I choose not to get wild caught fish, and this one is the result of whatever fish were put together. I recognize their necessity to continue having fish as pets, but I could not stand to think a fish who knew the wild is now encaged in my little aquarium. I actually do think it is pure perlmutt, but you can have your differing opinion. Honestly, it does not matter much to me if it was pure or not, I like the fish. But to call it a bad specimen is not really true. It does not fit your ideal for what you look for in a fish.. that does not make it poor quality. You have not inslted me by saying that, but I think you have different opinions and I was stating mine!
 

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It's the same with all animals, and this discussion then gets translated to the age old Hybrid discussion. I for one agree with Joea that it's not the ideal species for a perlmutt, ideal meaning that it carries the natural traits of the species.

This sort of thinking of ideal isn't a Joea vs You of differing opinions. Ever see a Kennel Club competition? Think a judge would score a Labrador high if he/she had a black patches of fur all over their coat? The answer to that is no because it's not the ideal specimen of the species. Whether or not the owner of that dog loves/cares or thinks the dog is beautiful is a non-issue in the matter.

Do you love your fish and think it's a beautiful fish? Yes
Is your fish an ideal species of the perlmutt? No

If you don't mind that it's not and just want a colorful fish then it's a non-issue whether it is or not, but getting in a discussion over such in someone else's thread isn't the place for it, actually it's really a non-discussion because it ventures into personal preference. If you brought this fish to a fish show and labeled it as a permutt it wouldn't get high marks as it has coloration that's not ideal for the species.
 

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CichlidWhisperer said:
Hmmm.. Ideal is something man made up, not the wild.. The wild sustains abnormalities and welcomes them..
Interesting suggestion, but not one I can reconcile with my views. The species description is usually born out of a wide sample taken with careful measurements to figure out a range of tolerances for size, etc. Color is variable though still fits within a range of ok.
Rare specimens, or abnormals, do not contribute tot he norm in any published description I've read.

So I don't get how this is man made... perhaps you could say the cut off is made up, but not really the norm since many individuals are used to determine the normal range.

As far as nature welcoming abnormals... I don't see that ever. I've seen offspring abandoned for being different, I've seen flocks or schools drive out an oddity and I've seen even small differences be a reason for an individual getting rejected as a mate. Species reinforcement is more common than acceptance of abnormals.

CichlidWhisperer said:
Nature values diversity to fill different ecological niches. That is the whole concept of evolution.
This feels backwards... I understood that diversity was always as a result of natural resources and the drive to hog more of them... i.e. carve out a niche and optimize for it.

CichlidWhisperer said:
I actually do think it is pure perlmutt, but you can have your differing opinion.
I think sometimes we harp on pure/ impure a little too much... I could care less about purity... to me, abnormal is abnormal and I don't care how it got that way... hybridization just seems to be a very quick way to get to abnormal. There are slower ways that seem just as sad.

End result is fish that do not look like the majority of the ones out of the lakes.

Interesting conversation...
 

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In order to try and not take over this post with a totally different topic, I have started a new post:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... highlight=

Number6, I have posted a response to yours on that new page. I think you said a lot of very provocative statements and really wanted to continue the discussion.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
thanks everyone for helpin me out, that first fish which some think is a perlmutt, he is starting to get very aggressive towards the other fish, if that helps out
 
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