[Svbke]

Hello! I just got four GBR. I got two at first, and asked for good looking ones (stupidly, instead of asking for a m/f). Then I thought I HAD a m/f, and went back for another two, and asked for a m/f. All same store and same tank. I believe I got a m/f the second time but the first were two males, so I think I have one female and three males. I that the one labeled # 3 in the pictures is a definite female. It’s hard to tell bc they are round belly and some are long finned. I’m HOPING I have two females and two males but I doubt it. I think numbers 1 2 and 4 are males. The confusing part is that 1, 2, and 4 all have little areas in my 64.8 gallon but the known female is chased out of all the areas and has nipped fins. # 1 has taken the right side, # 2 the middle left and # 4 the far left, both behind large wood. So it’s POSSIBLE 2 and 4 are a mated pair that hide together but they both really look male and I think I see them flare at each other often. Just not sure what happens behind the wood. And I don’t get how # 3, the known female, couldn’t find a mate with three males in the tank! I hope I have two females and two males (and that they pair up) so I don’t have to take any back but I don’t think I do. Again, they are round belly and some are long finned. The only thing I have to go in is that the one known female looks very different and the others look more alike. But then I wonder bc why wouldn’t one of three males pair with the female? How long does pairing up take? Please help!

 

[Svbke]

Edit: I know that two males and two females won’t def become two pairs but it’s easier than three males and one female!!

 

[Svbke]

One more comment: they were labeled as round belly in the store. I had no clue they were balloons!

 

[Auballagh]

Hello.
And, welcome to Cichlid Forum!
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You have a line bred morph of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, German Blue Ram. That 'balloon shape' is an intentional deformity in these Cichlids, that has been selectively bred for generations to achieve that shape by very determined developers.
The German Blue Ram, along with a Central American Cichlid species Amatitilania nigrofasciatus, Convict Cichlid, are the latest in various species now showing those unlikely shapes purposely produced in New World Cichlids.....

Amatitlania nigrofasciatus, 'Polar Blue Parrot Cichlid'
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I personally find these physically deformed Cichlids rather tragic. And, as a responsible breeder - I would cull any off-spring produced by a spawning pair of my own Cichlids that displayed these traits, without question or hesitation. But then again....
I've never looked at any of these Cichlid species I've had the privilege to keep in my aquariums, as a way to make some fast money.
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So, to answer your question.
It is almost impossible to positively identify gender differences in the German Blue Ram, unless you see the Cichlids actively spawning. In the physically deformed Cichlids you have, I can't imagine how that task would be any easier.... So, if your seller promised you a definite female or male of this species? Well, at least he had a 50-50 chance of delivering the goods, I suppose.
It seems you have at least one male (or, one female) in that group of four Cichlids you purchased. So eventually, a pair will inevitably form up from that group and they will spawn for you. Until then, enjoy all the drama and Cichlid pairing games in your aquarium! It's possible over time, that a female (or male) German Blue Ram Cichlid will spawn with multiple partners in an aquarium, if enough numbers are stocked in the tank to make that sort of thing possible.

 

[Svbke]

Hello.
And, welcome to Cichlid Forum!
-
You have a line bred morph of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, German Blue Ram. That 'balloon shape' is an intentional deformity in these Cichlids, that has been selectively bred for generations to achieve that shape by very determined developers.
The German Blue Ram, along with a Central American Cichlid species Amatitilania nigrofasciatus, Convict Cichlid, are the latest in various species now showing those unlikely shapes purposely produced in New World Cichlids.....
View attachment 146863
Amatitlania nigrofasciatus, 'Polar Blue Parrot Cichlid'
-
I personally find these physically deformed Cichlids rather tragic. And, as a responsible breeder - I would cull any off-spring produced by a spawning pair of my own Cichlids that displayed these traits, without question or hesitation. But then again....
I've never looked at any of these Cichlid species I've had the privilege to keep in my aquariums, as a way to make some fast money.
-
So, to answer your question.
It is almost impossible to positively identify gender differences in the German Blue Ram, unless you see the Cichlids actively spawning. In the physically deformed Cichlids you have, I can't imagine how that task would be any easier.... So, if your seller promised you a definite female or male of this species? Well, at least he had a 50-50 chance of delivering the goods, I suppose.
It seems you have at least one male (or, one female) in that group of four Cichlids you purchased. So eventually, a pair will inevitably form up from that group and they will spawn for you. Until then, enjoy all the drama and Cichlid pairing games in your aquarium! It's possible over time, that a female (or male) German Blue Ram Cichlid will spawn with multiple partners in an aquarium, if enough numbers are stocked in the tank to make that sort of thing possible.

Thank you so much!! I was naive bc I am horrified by balloon mollies but rounded belly rams didn’t connect with balloons. I had never seen rams before the store. I could return them all I guess. But yes I agree that one looks super diff so I imagine she or he looks diff for a reason!! Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Auballagh]

Yeah, that stuff happen when you're new to this thing and still figuring things out . It's what you do next, now that you KNOW what you have that sort of decides the issue, right? And well, to take this thing a bit further....
I see that you are interested in getting these Cichlids to spawn? And sure, that is a lot of very interesting activity in an aquarium to observe.
I get that.
But, if your 'Balloon Rams' succeed in spawning for you? What's next? Do you want to raise up the babies produced by that pairing? Raise out a batch of even more Balloon Rams? I mean, when I compare the shape and coloration of the 'natural' German Blue Ram against those purposely deformed Cichlids....

Mikrogeophagus ramerezi, German Blue Ram - natural shape and coloration
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I mean, why would you want to mess with that? Well-kept, healthy German Blue Rams are stunningly beautiful Cichlids!
JUST THE WAY THEY ARE.
So yes, if the decision was mine to make in choosing to keep those Balloon Rams vs. the natural shape and colored type? There's no doubt as to the action I would personally choose to take for that situation and question.

 

[Svbke]

Yeah, that stuff happen when you're new to this thing and still figuring things out . It's what you do next, now that you KNOW what you have that sort of decides the issue, right? And well, to take this thing a bit further....
I see that you are interested in getting these Cichlids to spawn? And sure, that is a lot of very interesting activity in an aquarium to observe.
I get that.
But, if your 'Balloon Rams' succeed in spawning for you? What's next? Do you want to raise up the babies produced by that pairing? Raise out a batch of even more Balloon Rams? I mean, when I compare the shape and coloration of the 'natural' German Blue Ram against those purposely deformed Cichlids....
View attachment 146872
Mikrogeophagus ramerezi, German Blue Ram - natural shape and coloration
-
I mean, why would you want to mess with that? Well-kept, healthy German Blue Rams are stunningly beautiful Cichlids!
JUST THE WAY THEY ARE.
So yes, if the decision was mine to make in choosing to keep those Balloon Rams vs. the natural shape and colored type? There's no doubt as to the action I would personally choose to take for that situation and question.

Oh you bring up a very good point that I did not clarify. I do not care to have babies AT ALL. The only reason I want mated pairs is so a bunch of males (or females if that’s that case) don’t fight to the death. No no no no babies. I had Kribs who were fierce when they had babies. So I clearly hadn’t thought out my own plans and so didn’t explain them clearly! Now that I know better, if I returned these and got other non deformed rams, what is a good ratio? Again, my goal is not babies, which, actually, I don’t mind so much as they will get eaten, but I DO mind nasty spawning behaviors. So I’m so sorry I wasn’t clear in my own mind, much less in my post. Let’s pretend I have a few regular rams. How would I get a ratio of nice happy fishes? All females? One male? I truly don’t know ESP bc Kribs, for example, have nastier females than males, so I would have been better with all males which isn’t always the case I’m sure. I should have been more clear about my goals, which are to have rams that cohabitate well. No babies (or if they have them, I would leave them in the main tank and come what may). Also, bc of the tank mates, the GBR are at a temp of around 80.2. The temp sometimes drops bc of the cold weather here, never below 79.7//79.9 but still too cold.

 

[Auballagh]

Alrighty then!
With compatibility in Cichlids it almost always comes down to the available 'real estate' in the tank. So, what are the dimensions of your 64.8 gallon aquarium? The most important dimensions being the length and width. The height of a tank is usually secondary to the bottom area, or 'footprint' of the tank. So, did you wind up with four German Blue Rams (GBR)?
And yes, a lot of people keep GBR in super hot water. I've had more problems with those high heat aquariums than in others kept at saner temps. So, if the temps don't go below 78 degrees F. in there, you should be fine. I personally wouldn't keep temps above 80 in their aquarium. The higher temps will drive the oxygen out of the water, and bacteria problems can become fierce with the higher temps for freshwater fresh in an aquarium.

 

[Svbke]

Alrighty then!
With compatibility in Cichlids it almost always comes down to the available 'real estate' in the tank. So, what are the dimensions of your 64.8 gallon aquarium? The most important dimensions being the length and width. The height of a tank is usually secondary to the bottom area, or 'footprint' of the tank. So, did you wind up with four German Blue Rams (GBR)?
And yes, a lot of people keep GBR in super hot water. I've had more problems with those high heat aquariums than in others kept at saner temps. So, if the temps don't go below 78 degrees F. in there, you should be fine. I personally wouldn't keep temps above 80 in their aquarium. The higher temps will drive the oxygen out of the water, and bacteria problems can become fierce with the higher temps for freshwater fresh in an aquarium.

Oooo that’s good to know! Ok yes 4 GBR! So this tank was second hand and it was way diff dimensions than I imagined: it’s 48” long by 13” wide (by 24” but that’s not important for this as you say). So the question is, in your opinion, which is MORE important for GBR? Length or width? I love the width of my 40 breeder and when a 65 gallon tank was advertised I assumed it was 36” x 18” and was thrilled. Now I do like the extra foot of length a lot so that’s nice but I wish the tank was wider and shorter (24” is a pain to plant in). So just curious if for these fishes you think length or width is more important? I know you said both but I’m hoping length is the most important bc that’s all I’ve got! 13” is so narrow (and it BOGGLES my mind that any tank over 40 gallons would be 12–13” wide).

 

[Auballagh]

Okay then...
The first, most important tank sizing priority in controlling Cichlid aggression is the LENGTH of the aquarium. This can cause problems for some people who like to set up those wide, but shorter length (36 inch) 'breeder style tanks. So, next behind total length, is the bottom area or 'footprint' of the tank. Height of the tank pays a role in a limited number of Cichlid-keeping applications (ex: tall Angelfish, top or surface swimming Cichlids). The total capacity or volume of the tank is last in keeping priority (but can be very important for other reasons, such as stability in water chemistry, etc....).
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The four foot length of your aquarium should prove to be an ideal size for keeping those four German Blue Rams.

And lastly.... One of the biggest problems we continue to see here with keeping more sensitive Cichlids such as the German Blue Ram, is the difficulty in maintaining that soft-acidic water that this species really requires to thrive in the aquarium. 6.8 PH would be the maximum I would recommend, though this species would probably prefer that their water be maintained in the low to high 5's in PH. Also, low to almost undetectable dissolved organics (Phosphate & Nitrate) are extremely important water conditions required to ensure the health and well-being of these sensitive Cichlids. So, can you consistently provide water that low in PH, that is maintained at a very clean, near pristine level of quality?

 

[Svbke]

Okay then...
The first, most important tank sizing priority in controlling Cichlid aggression is the LENGTH of the aquarium. This can cause problems for some people who like to set up those wide, but shorter length (36 inch) 'breeder style tanks. So, next behind total length, is the bottom area or 'footprint' of the tank. Height of the tank pays a role in a limited number of Cichlid-keeping applications (ex: tall Angelfish, top or surface swimming Cichlids). The total capacity or volume of the tank is last in keeping priority (but can be very important for other reasons, such as stability in water chemistry, etc....).
-
The four foot length of your aquarium should prove to be an ideal size for keeping those four German Blue Rams.

And lastly.... One of the biggest problems we continue to see here with keeping more sensitive Cichlids such as the German Blue Ram, is the difficulty in maintaining that soft-acidic water that this species really requires to thrive in the aquarium. 6.8 PH would be the maximum I would recommend, though this species would probably prefer that their water be maintained in the low to high 5's in PH. Also, low to almost undetectable dissolved organics (Phosphate & Nitrate) are extremely important water conditions required to ensure the health and well-being of these sensitive Cichlids. So, can you consistently provide water that low in PH, that is maintained at a very clean, near pristine level of quality?

No. I have soft water but my ph is 7.4–7.6. Darn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Auballagh]

Easy now..... This may be a fairly easy problem to correct. Esp. if you have water with very low measured hardness in GH and KH values.
This post will help...

Angelfish - High pH / Low KH - pH Swings?

Hey guys, I picked up a used 55 gallon recently, and I think I'm going to try out some live plants with a low-tech South American setup. Nothing complicated here in terms of stocking, I'll probably start with a school of cardinal tetras, some sterbai cories, otos, and once I get everything...

www.cichlid-forum.com

Early info may inform and help directly with your problem. The later stuff gets a little 'chippy' regarding water quality and water changes...
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To do this right, you will need to get a reservoir container. Typically a plastic, large capacity, heavy duty trash can by Rubber Maid or something. Basically, the reservoir is used to pre-treat the water going into the tank for filling or water changes. That is when you put in a standard list of required ingredients to get the water chemistry just like you want it. This pre-treatment reservoir with additives process is done to both raise or lower the PH of aquarium water.
When the reservoir is mixed right, you just pump the treated water into the aquarium using a submersible pump with a length of vinyl hose to refill the tank after a water change or something. More time consuming, yes. But, it can be set up as a routine, sustainable process to maintain your aquarium.
To implement that over to your German Blue Ram aquarium, I would go slowly with it in treating and acidifying the water. Acclimation over a few weeks of water changes will help to keep everyone healthy and happy.