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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a "Male Jack Dempsey" who seems to have a Female Rainbow Cichlid" following it around the tank like true buddies or a couple? Now I am not sure about the sex of the Rainbow. Is it possible for two different species from Central America to create offspring or is this unnatural and won't occur.
 

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Yes.
You have substrate spawning Cichlids. They all have the same basic strategy and general behaviors associated with spawning. Plus, Central American Cichlid species tend to be more closely related than their New World, South American counterparts. So, in the artificial confines of that glass or clear plastic box, the instinctive drive to spawn/reproduce can overcome other wild condition, 'normal' behaviors.
Successful spawns in the aquarium will produce hybrid Cichlids. That is one reason why it's kind of nice to have a tough (and sometimes mean) predatory type Cichlid stocked in a mixed community tank. With smaller Cichlid species, a female Trichromis salvini is often a (somewhat) less irascible choice that will provide a colorful, fry-controlling addition to a Cichlid community tank.
NOTE: The males of Trichromis salvini are NOT recommended for stocking in tanks with other Cichlid species that are comparable to them in aggression and size. The females are aggressive also, but tend to be a bit less psycho about it than the males of this species can be. Warning: when/if a serial killer emerges in a male Salvini, the results can be pretty devastating. :(
 
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I have a "Male Jack Dempsey" who seems to have a Female Rainbow Cichlid" following it around the tank like true buddies or a couple? Now I am not sure about the sex of the Rainbow. Is it possible for two different species from Central America to create offspring or is this unnatural and won't occur.
It is definitely possible.

In fact crossbreeding between at least some south and central american cichlids are also possible.
 

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Is it possible? It's a virtual pandemic amongst aquarium fishes, and a most unfortunate one. Do a search for 'interspecific hybridization in cichlid fishes' and you will find a virtual avalanche of information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It will be interesting if the Jack Dempsey & Rainbow create a HYBRID offspring to see what features would be dominate from which Central American breed. I think they are too young yet but maybe in 6 months it could happen.
 

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It will be interesting if the Jack Dempsey & Rainbow create a HYBRID offspring to see what features would be dominate from which Central American breed. I think they are too young yet but maybe in 6 months it could happen.
Yeah I am super keen to know too. There are plenty of jack dempsey crosses to see what potential influences may be like. However I have not found a single example of a crossbreed where a rainbow is involved, surprisingly. So yeh, good luck on the breeding! Hope it works out.

It would be also interesting to see what the F2 from crossing F1s would look like.

It is possible and likely that there would be chromosomal mis-alignment in the F1, especially if the parents are too divergent from each other genetically or if they contain vastly different numbers of chromosomes. Due to this, sometimes traits simply do not show regardless of whether they are ‘dominant’ or otherwise simply due to the chromosal arrangement being completely off.

But in F2 generations, a lot of traits can ‘return’ when they may get two copies of a chromosome again, or when rearrangements ‘fix’ some of the genetic defects of the F1 gen.

This is why you can get some drab F1s but suddenly F2 look great.

So yeah would be curious not only what the progeny here looks like, but also subsequent generations too.

I have only crossbred Amatitlania nigrofasciata and Thorichthys maculipinnis. That was fun. Unfortunately never got to F2.

I am a geneticist, could not help it. :p
 

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I just had a blue acara and Cichlasoma amazonarum that bred together, reported here:Cichlasoma and Andinoacara spawn together.

I found an article that said that South American cichlids don't hybridize unless they belong to the same genus. I was forgetting that both of these species were once Aequidens, so are probably quite closely related. I never thought of this possibility when I put the acara in the tank with the Cichlasomas to separate it from a conspecific that it was chasing too much. I am not interested in breeding hybrids. The eggs disappeared after 2 days so I don't know if they were fertile, but they hadn't turned white and were probably eaten.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well it is not my intention to BREED a hybrid at all. Just noticed that these two juveniles are good friends at least. Too young yet but I shall let everyone know if it occurs as I am not an expert on determining the sexes of fish with my less than stellar eyesight.
 

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My own Trichromis salvini female seemed to just really love hybrid African Mbuna fry for some reason.... :censored:
 
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Interesting how people can have different perspectives. I am also a geneticist, and therefore consider interspecific hybrids the bane of the aquarium hobby.
Yeah I always have been fascinated by the cool things that can arise from combining effectively different bits of DNA. I always have a spot in my heart for mutts, not least because they tend to be healthier than purebred dogs, but also for their diversity. I love myself hybrid fish, and while the concept is very different - certainly health issues can be a big factor when considering interspecific hybrids, it still speaks to me. :3 It feels good creating something new.
 

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Mutts are not hybrids; they are a species in its natural state, that is, outbred. Purebreds are not hybrids either, but they are the products of consanguineous matings, that is, they are inbred. In the aquarium hobby these kinds of strains are often called 'line bred.' As a geneticist, you know this, so my explanation is geared primarily to those who may be confused by reading our comments on this issue.

Interspecific hybrids are an entirely different matter, and they pose a real threat to the maintenance of bona fide species in captivity. I have no issue with hybrid fishes provided they stay in your fish room; the problem arises when they are distributed, either knowingly or unknowingly, to unwary aquarists. To appreciate the magnitude of this problem, one need only peruse the 'Unidentified Cichlids' section of this forum, where you will discover that the majority of these queries concern interspecific hybrids of uncertain parentage. The problem is so acute amongst Malawian fishes that it is getting more and more difficult to find bona fide species in the hobby.

The problem is potentially even worse, if that can be imagined, amongst very closely related populations, such as the Tropheus species flock of Lake Tanganyika. These populations evolved so recently that effective meiotic and/or behavioral constraints to interbreeding have not yet been established, so they interbreed readily in captivity. So far, serious Tropheus keepers have been keenly attuned to this issue, and generally keep each geographically distinct population in a 'species tank' (a misnomer in this context) so as to eliminate the problem of hybridization. The fact that Tropheus are much more demanding in captivity than say, Mbuna, has also served to largely preclude inadvertent hybridization by unwary and/or uninformed aquarists.

The American Cichlid Association has as its mandate the conservation of existing species, and the continuation of wild-type genetic populations so they are not lost forever through pollution, habitat destruction, over-fishing, or hybridization. I agree with that mission in its entirety, and as such, I would never keep interspecific hybrids.
 

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Yeah I always have been fascinated by the cool things that can arise from combining effectively different bits of DNA. I always have a spot in my heart for mutts, not least because they tend to be healthier than purebred dogs, but also for their diversity. I love myself hybrid fish, and while the concept is very different - certainly health issues can be a big factor when considering interspecific hybrids, it still speaks to me. :3 It feels good creating something new.
I feel like you'd be Dr. Henry Wu in the Jurassic Park book/movie series...not a compliment :cautious:
 

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I feel like you'd be Dr. Henry Wu in the Jurassic Park book/movie series...not a compliment :cautious:
Or even more tellingly, Dr. Moreau in the H. G Wells science fiction classic from 1896, which has as one theme 'human interference with nature.' Also not a compliment.
Yes, I 100% indeed believe that human interference is necessary and the natural course. It is inevitable. When we have the power that we do, we will one way or another have to influence nature. So might as well control what we do.

So yes, I am indeed one of those people who value GMOs, vat-grown meat, using genetically engineered microorganisms to solve issues like oil spills or plastic contamination, and also even to alter the environment when/if necessary.
 

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...Yes, I 100% indeed believe that human interference is necessary and the natural course. It is inevitable. When we have the power that we do, we will one way or another have to influence nature. So might as well control what we do.

So yes, I am indeed one of those people who value GMOs, vat-grown meat, using genetically engineered microorganisms to solve issues like oil spills or plastic contamination, and also even to alter the environment when/if necessary.
Yeah, we're doing a really great job at altering the environment so far. :mad:
 
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