Cichlid Fish Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

I have a 55g, I currently have what I want to be my complete stock.
2m 2f occies
1m 1f alto comp
1? goby
1 syno
1 eel
3 punks

Everything was copasetic until a week ago. For some reason the punks decided they rule everything smaller than them.. meaning the occies... The poor little guys don't even stay in their shells anymore.. I mean, I established this tank with the goby and the occies and read everywhere that it was impossible! not an issue at all..I really like the punks, and don't want to get rid of them, but I like the occies more..
Is there a way to control the aggression, such as with malawi tanks and overpopulate?
If so which species?
Will the occies be issue with full grown acomp? He has been raised with them but is only 3.5" now. 0 aggression so far, they fend him off.
Open to suggestions...

On a side note, these are the biggest punks *** ever seen.. Over 3"!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,581 Posts
Gobies and occies are fine together- not sure why that would be a problem. And for the long run, your stocking is good. But- the punks need to be controlled through aquascaping. Can you give us a picture of the tank?

I suggest rearranging everything to start off. Then, make sure you have shells for the occies that are too small for the punks. My punks have chosen a cave to spawn in... I'd try that, in hopes there would be little competition for a cave with your other species. Anyway- put the punk-suitable habitat in a back corner, and then leave a good 8" of nothing but open sand. After the 8" of open sand, scatter a few rocks or plants as a sight break, but nothing that would provide spawning territory. Are both your altos adults, and are they paired/breeding? If not, then we'll provide territory for them later. If they are, provide some large conch shells or or something for cover near the site break. For the occies- scatter the shells in the front corner of the tank, opposite the punks, and stand a few rocks on end in the shell bed.

It would be helpful if you had a spare tank to house the punks for a couple of days- let everyone else get settled, then add the punk territory and punks a few days later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
656 Posts
I would say adding a few more occie's might be your best chance, but the reality is that you have too many different species for a 55. The general recommendation for a 55 is 3 species, consisting of 1 shell dweller, 1 rock dweller, and 1 open water (cyps).

Some people will probably disagree with me, but I think in some cases, the altolamps can act as your open water species, so you could try keeping the altos(get another female if you can), get about 3 -4 more occies, and keep the caudo's.

You would have to find new homes for the rest of the fish, A 55 just doesn't leave enough floor space for the eel, the syno, and the goby
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
sorry about the quality..
I have 3 UGJ against the background at 30* angle facing towards left of photo. So rocks cannot impede their path.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,581 Posts
No worries about quality- the pic is great for illustrating what we can do to fix the bully punks. While your tank looks very nice, it doesn't provide clear territory breaks. The punks never feel exposed defending the whole tank. Also, I don't see enough shells for the occies... try for at least three shells of a suitable size per fish.

It's quite easy to house four breeding groups in a 55 gallon tank, they just have to be the right species. Generally, gobies and altos make great community members, and I would typically put punks in that category too. However, your's have proven the exception. :wink:

For rearranging the tank- I suggest removing the long piece of rock from the back- it looks great there, but will work against trying to establish multiple territories.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
i actually have 13 shells in there! lol
and I can't remove the long rock in the back, it is part of the background! :?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,503 Posts
Your punks (Getting rid of the excess punk might calm the main pair down some) will want roughly 12" of space in every direction. It is for this reason I usually set my shells up so they'll choose one in a corner. That way I don't have to give up too much foot print as the corner setup negates two "directions" of 12" each (Make sense?).

I would build a sight break around that corner territory, for the punks, about a foot away from the shell as I said and make sure it's about 6-8 inches high and equally long. They might be "punks" still a bit but once they start breeding they'll stick to that 12 inch area for the most part.

Setup your Occies clear on the other side and try to setup An Alto territory in the middle (The shellies and punks will be reluctant to go to battle with one another with breeding/feeding Altos in the middle of their active nests). The gobies will do as gobies do and bother everybody in the tank by wandering everywhere and chasing each other! :D

You will want to get rid of that 3rd punk so the other two, presumably m/f?, will calm down and breed thus sticking closer to home.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,581 Posts
Darkside said:
I seem to remember cautioning you against this mix. :lol:
Am I just lucky that my punks are the calmest fish I own? :lol:

The background is lovely, but is causing half the trouble, imho. And I agree with Razzo that once the punks start breeding, they'll stick closer to the nest. 8", 12"- either way try to distinguish their territory from the rest of the tank. Perhaps you can stuff more rocks under that long shelf- leaving holes between too small for the punks. I'm not sure site breaks will help, but it's worth a shot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,123 Posts
triscuit said:
Darkside said:
I seem to remember cautioning you against this mix. :lol:
Am I just lucky that my punks are the calmest fish I own? :lol:

The background is lovely, but is causing half the trouble, imho. And I agree with Razzo that once the punks start breeding, they'll stick closer to the nest. 8", 12"- either way try to distinguish their territory from the rest of the tank. Perhaps you can stuff more rocks under that long shelf- leaving holes between too small for the punks. I'm not sure site breaks will help, but it's worth a shot.
The punks I have are complete bruisers. In fact I have them in with a Tropheus group.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yes you did Darkside... :roll: you did..
I thought, this guy is crazy. I have read nothing about aggressive punks, alot about aggressive occies. Boy, was I wrong.

I should have been a little more clear I suppose. I have punks from two different stocks. 2 large ones that are mature and I believe are both males (they get along with eachother. Not real sure how to sex though) and a very small one that was sickly when I got it. Not mature yet. 1/3 size of the brutes.
The altos are not sexually mature, maybe another year.. :(
Occies are sexually mature, they are just "funny" with eachother.

The BG was made for the altos, I put lots of shelves for them. However, I didn't really think about the other fish when making.

I don't want to get rid of any fish, but it may come to that... :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
update:
Raised the stones laying horizontal to vertical. Placed all the smaller shells to one side of that barrier.
Has gotten better! not perfect though.. I may return these punks and get some from the first stock that are smaller. Maybe with them growing together it will be better.

Or it may turn into a shellie tank! who knows, time will tell.. :thumb:
thanks for all the advice!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
40,505 Posts
Mine try to be, but nobody takes them seriously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,503 Posts
Mine are quite aggressive as well! Any occies I've had were also "bruisers", Unless you count N. Stappersi as "occies". Even Similis can be a bit hard from time to time. You're really only safe with multis, Stapps, and Brevis (Of the species which are generally readily available)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,581 Posts
My stapps were mass murdering buggers- couldn't keep two males in a 4 ft tank, and even the females were murdered shortly after their first spawns. I kept pulling the bruisers, but another big bully would step up.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top