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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so i have made up my mind with what i want to stock in my 180g. here is the plan...

first, after the cycle, i will introduce a group of julis (6) to gauge the suitability of my bore water for fish.
second will be a group of either six comps or calvus and (if possible) a small group of shellies of whichever type is suitable and available
thirdly will come my colony of 7-10 juvi frontosas
and lastly, once everybody is grown up enough (mainly the fronosas) i will add a small colony of six leleupis.

how does this sound? its probably all wrong but anyways, what does everybody think??

Thanks,
Todd
 

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I would advise getting the shellies first, then wait a month or two and start adding your other species. The reason for this is that in my experience, the juli's and alto's are sensitive to any changes in the water, so you'll want everything established and stabilized before adding them
 

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Here are some potential issues.

1. Large Julidochromis and leleupi are known for being aggressive towards certain shell dwellers, often pulling and killing females from shells, in order to get at their fry.

2. Cy frontosa are predators that eat fish up to half their size. That means everything else in the tank is on the menu.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
hmm i had thought that predation might be an issue. but how do other tanks such as Frank Muellers 240g get away with stocking small fish with frontosa?

and as for the shellies, well i suppose if i notice any aggression towards them, then maybe it may be a good excuse to start another tank :wink:
 

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My leleupi did kill not only my shellies, but also my caudopunctatus. Seems they liked the caves occupied by the caudos.

I do not have leleupi any more and the caudo's are happy.
 

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Toddles said:
hmm i had thought that predation might be an issue. but how do other tanks such as Frank Muellers 240g get away with stocking small fish with frontosa?
I've seen Frank's tank, and it seems to be an exception to the rules. He's got leleupi, a number of them, and j. marlieri doing just fine together with large frontosa. I do believe they grew out together, but I wouldn't say that's always going to work for everyone. His aquascaping may be part of it, as it's somewhat unique.

A shellie you might consider is leipidio hecqui or boulengeri. They can more than hold their own against juli's and lamps. My hecqui were actually too aggressive towards them. I took the numbers down to one pair and it's working out fine with small comps and n. longicaudatus as tank mates. But, if the frontosa saw tankmates as food, they'd be small enough to be on the menu also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
hmm well maybe i may just leave the shelldwellers out of it...
if the fronts grew up from juvenile size with the others would the odds of it working out be better?
 

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Toddles said:
hmm i had thought that predation might be an issue. but how do other tanks such as Frank Muellers 240g get away with stocking small fish with frontosa?
Frank did a lot of research before setting the tank up, and there are a lot of hiding spots for smaller fish. I also suspect he keeps the fish well fed, plus as another poster said, grew the fish out together. It proves that smaller fish can be kept with Frontosa and it is encouraging to see. Balance that with the numerous reports and pics of what other Fronts have done to tankmates.

In my 180, I have some large Kigomas, some Syno Multipunctatus catfish, 6 - make that 3 Danios (fronts ate 3) :) and a single Leleupi. So far, the Leleupi has been ok for 5+ years, but I would not advise others to try the same thing. I'd also bet Frank has lost some small fish in the process, particularly fry and juveniles.

So, it can be done but you need to go into it with your eyes open, supply plenty of smaller hiding spots, and be selective in the tankmates. Be ready to remove the tankmates at the first sign of trouble.
 

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nodima said:
It proves that smaller fish can be kept with Frontosa and it is encouraging to see.
All it really proves, is that it is currently working for Frank. I think it is probably luck, as well as really well fed fish..

Growing the fish up together doesn't really seem to be a factor, but rather portraying human characteristics onto fish. They don't become friends. :wink:
 

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Toddles said:
A shellie you might consider is leipidio hecqui or boulengeri. They can more than hold their own against juli's and lamps. My hecqui were actually too aggressive towards them. I took the numbers down to one pair and it's working out fine with small comps and n. longicaudatus as tank mates. But, if the frontosa saw tankmates as food, they'd be small enough to be on the menu also.
Yeah, they're rough. My buddy took an adult pair of hecqui home from our local auction the other day. One of them ripped the eye out of a 4" comp that night. Good times....

To the OP, have you considered getting some non-predatory open water swimmers or sand dwellers? A group of jumbo cyps are an impressive sight in a 6' tank.
 

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Fogelhund said:
nodima said:
It proves that smaller fish can be kept with Frontosa and it is encouraging to see.
All it really proves, is that it is currently working for Frank. I think it is probably luck, as well as really well fed fish..

Growing the fish up together doesn't really seem to be a factor, but rather portraying human characteristics onto fish. They don't become friends. :wink:
Well put - the growing up together makes a difference only in the size differential between the fish. It simply buys you time. A 3" front is unlikely to eat a 2" leleupi. And yeah, I agree about the "Current" piece, but I did not want to jinx his set up! :D
 

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As we can see with other species, some individual fish act differently. You may get a group of fronts that are perfectly fine with tank mates, or you may get one that is particularly snack-happy. And we've heard from others how things were fine for years, and then one night...

So, it's about managing risk- how much loss (fish deaths) is worth giving the mix a try? If the reason you are getting the big tank is for fronts, maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal to you if the other fish become snacks. However, if you are looking for that great community tank, then perhaps fronts aren't the best choice.
 

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if the fronts grew up from juvenile size with the others would the odds of it working out be better?
It's an interesting question. I wonder if over the initial months of viewing the tank mates as too large to eat and not potential food that they never get past that idea. If Frank added small fish to the tank now, would the fronts go after the newcomers?
 

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My hequi were not as aggressive as you guys describe. They were wild, and never even left their territory. I would describe mine as easy going lol.
 
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