South American Cichlids • Biotodoma Cupido

Discussion regarding only South American Cichlid species. (Oscars, Geophagines, Discus, Apistogramma, Green Terrors, Angels, Severums, Pikes, etc.)

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Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby everlast » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:17 am

Hopefullty this latest clutch of eggs works out Robert, your obviously doing all the right things......your gonna crack it :) (excuse the egg pun)

Coriandre I reckon mine and your arent too far apart in terms of age maybe mine have a few months on yours....contrary to what other folks have said mine have grown up pretty fast if you look at my photos earlier on in the topic...I followed Joes outlook on feeding as in more regular/smaller feeds rather than a couple of larger feeds.

Remember my little "female" that I nearly lost way back Joe?.....well Im pretty sure she is a female and she really has been putting onto the other females in the tank. The way it seems is that I have three (larger and thicker) males who hang back in the shadows at the rear of the tank, the females are out front bickering for top spot ...last night the smallest female whom Im talking about was bursting with colour...really stretching her fins out to show off and was indulging in lots of lip locking with the others, its all great signs that they are really embracing colony life and if her display is anything to go by I could see her being the first female to spawn.........or I am being a complete optimist and have no idea what Im talking about :)
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Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:18 pm
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Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby RobertCupido » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:49 pm

Hey guys,

yes they are swimming free right now:

Image

720L tank is shared by:
7 Biotodoma Cupido 5/2
7 Dicrossus Maculatus 1/6 or 2/5
ca. 100 paracheirodon simulans
ca 20 otocinclus hoppei
30 Poecilia caucana

and the "leftovers" 1 Apistogramma Blue steel, 3 Carinotetraodon Travancorius, 1 Pangio Kuhli.

Oh and I forgot a lot of small snails, 3 species and red fire shrimp. From time to time I find hyalella azteca.

No real thread for the fry I hope and Im going to stick to the living brine shrimp and Enchytraeus buchholzi. Better feed a little less (still 3 different hatching stations for brine shrimp to feed three times a day) so there is less pollution.
RobertCupido
 
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:59 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby everlast » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:33 pm

Wow...awesome Robert!!....and yet another beautiful and very natural photograph :)
everlast
 
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:18 pm
Location: scotland

Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby joemc » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:44 am

nice photo Robert, are the fry feeding away now? can you see the full bellies
joemc
 
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:17 am
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Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby RobertCupido » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:55 am

Hey Joe,

Yes they are taking Artemia nauplia from the first moment they are swimming on. There are still plenty, well hidden in the shades most of the time. Photos will follow when I get the chance for a good shot. I'm afraid to change anything in the interior for a better view and This I won't disturb the couple or water chemistry.

One odd occurrence: a male refuge came very close when he was trying to avoid confrontation with the other males (still a lot of fights for territory and the other female). So he was right in the middle of the fry, took me a second to realize there is one too many "guarding". He was of darker color and didn't mind the fry at all. Obviously for the couple it was a bit stressful having him around but they didn't freak out either until I made a wake up call with flashlight pointed to the intruder.

I get the feeling the cupidos are demanding the space for breeding and the other tankmates respectfully move around the imaginary circle. That didn't work out with the second female so she ate her eggs. But: My fish are used to this certain environment. I'm still amazed how yours are raising the fry in a rather crowded tank, Joe. Did they start off with breeding in more quiet setting or did they not care even as unexperienced first timers? So many times I thought and read the tank should be absolutely peaceful.
RobertCupido
 
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:59 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby joemc » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:23 am

hi Robert, at this stage I am guessing you have lost a few of the fry and the parents are now caring for a good sized group of hungry fry that are eating anything that moves! no panic with the pictures, that opportunity will present itself in its own time.
the stock in my tank changes every now and again, cardinals then lemon tetras, apistos, Nanochromis etc etc, but te cupido breed away regardless, the only fish that caused me a problem were the Brochis shoal, they were like little tanks and caused a problem at the egg / larvae stage, disturbing the parents.
the next addition to the tank will be some regain pikes that I have ordered, I have wanted them for a while, but now need tem to deal with the apisto and Nanochromis offspring, they are both managing to reproduce at an alarming rate with a lot of young surviving.
on another note I have been thinking of moving on my group of 15 adult cupido and some of the young in the tank, I will keep some of the offspring just to see how long it takes captive bred cupido to reach maturity and spawn in the aquarium, I would like the group to go as a whole to someone, but would settle for splitting them into two groups..... just need to find a new owner! sort of want to try something different in the tank, I am not even very sure what fish yet, so many choices!
joemc
 
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:17 am
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Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby RobertCupido » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:26 am

Hey Joe,

I wish it had worked out this way! A lot of turmoil in and around the tank - The fry disappeared again. I guess there is a fundamental problem in the tank. Still not sure if it might be bacteria or salt of the artemia nauplia. Maybe its NH3 (Ph is slightly jumping around 7), a rotten area somewhere... maybe its the broken root of a monstera plant or other residues that get washed out from time to time.

I'll have to give the setup another 6 month, I guess its not that easy to get it working. Every week I change 30% of the water and I have to find a proper way to press the PH under 7. I cant use Phosphor acid because it forms a depot of PO4, the Chlorid in HCL might not pleasure the plants and I have the feeling that the best acids from leaves and turf get eaten by the UV-Clearer.

Thats very frustrating, not knowing what happpened. With Otocinclus and dicrossus I have very sensitive tankmates, the neocaridinia are doing fine so I guess its not some heavy metal.

I changed the order of my filter substrates and I get clear water without having an extra mechanical filter in the tank since then. Im performing more water changes over the course of the next months and to support the plants I have set up a very small dose of daily fertilizer. I think the stronger overall growth of the plants is very vital for the tank - with that kind of mass of organic material in it there might be peaks in the chemistry that overstrained the sensible youngsters. All the other tank mates are doing fine, to the naked I of my aquarists club everything looks perfect. But it isnt - Im working my way to the core though. Threw out the Apistogramma, the puffers will have to go too. I will buy new artemia eggs and even more carefully wash each batch of hatched ones if I again choose to extra feed. Naturally there should be enough to feed of in what the parents are chewing off the ground.

I guess the next try is on the way, I will avoid major changes in the setup and work my way slowly to the tank I want to run. When the fry started to disappear I didnt notice cause they were hidden, after I realised I really thought about a whole new start with sea water. But I cant give up on the cupidos... they are exactly my fish and it is exactly their aquarium. Just a few more adaptations, a stable PH of 6.5 to 6.8 to force immediate reaction of NH3 and sorting out any limits of micro and macro nutritions.

One female again is preparing a spawning place.

It'll have to work out! Here's my loner of the first batch, he is a real mood raiser:
Image
RobertCupido
 
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:59 am
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Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby joemc » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:42 am

that is a bit disappointing Robert, but the little survivor will lift your mood and tell you you are doing something right, keep at it , they will get it right. is it possible the checkerboards are picking off some of them too?
on another note I gave a group of the first of my offspring to a good friend a couple of months and one has laid eggs, a female of around 11 months old, it mated with a large wild caught male and has got to the free swimming fry stage on a couple of occasions, so there is the info I was looking to find. captive bred females can breed at less than a year old, now to find out how long before the males are sexually mature
joemc
 
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:17 am
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Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby RobertCupido » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:57 pm

Hey guys,

caring a little more for water hygiene seems to work! Furthermore there are a lot of small things like less frozen food, avoiding broken roots of the emerse plants and daily fertilizer that seems to establish a better climate in the tank. At least to the naked eye.

The timespan between spawns seems to shorten. The last was end of january I guess, now tonight the pair spawned again. It was a bit crazy:

The second couple kind of broke apart, now the female is standing with her "ex-boyfriend" again leaving the former second largest male single. Now the fatherhood for the first couple took some substance so this male now is a tiny bit less strong than the former second place. His female is still with him but: The now largest male intervened a couple of times while she layed her eggs and tried to fertilize. Of course the couple aggressivly protested but he might have had his chance to "hijack" some of the eggs. Quite a turmoil.

The other couple will follow soon and hopefully be more dedicated. I'll keep you up to date!
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Location: Berlin

Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby RobertCupido » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:16 pm

Now the second couple is guarding too, the female retourned to its ex-male. To this date, they were guarding the longest and the spot is pretty sweet for pictures:

Image

The first couple lost some eggs, I dont know if it'll work after hatching.

I got 11 and a half cupdios in the tank. 4 are going to a friend on tuesday. I really hope I'll be able to catch them without any disturbance and stressing the two couples.

I did a water change just yesterday, now the following weeks I will perform smaller changes without additives like leaves or trace elements.

Wish me luck!
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:59 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby RobertCupido » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:39 am

The first wigglers hatched but I think there are only few left. The female chose a difficult spot and with the interventions of the other male a lot got fanned of right after attaching. Im not sure if she goes through with that small amount of offspring.

The other female has an even bigger clutch:
Image

I tried to feed the tank and spread it all over to support the staying in position but it was quite a lot of stress, attacking and defending. I hope I'll get the 4 Cupidos on monday and tuesday out of the tank to loosen the tension. It'll be 700L of a mess, if both parents are guarding and with that many bystanders.
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:59 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby RobertCupido » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:24 am

Hey guys,

it's up and down... she left her eggs. They must have hatched in the night. Almost all were fertilized and very few got fungus. I'm not sure what didn't make her go through but it must have been something with the spot. Maybe it was just too dense with all the company. On the other hand, I've seen a picture of like a million cupidos guarding with a distance of less than 50cm. I'll post it, when I find it - these fish are used to crowded breeding and constantly defending.

The other female is still guarding, I'll just wait and see about the outcome. Im still excited and sure, it'll have to work out some time. Guess I just have to sit back and be patient.
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:59 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby joemc » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:46 am

hello Robert, again great photos, you really should contact Matt over on seriouslyfish, I am sure he would love to add some of your excellent photos to the cupido profile.
I am not sure what is happening in the tank that the fry are disappearing at a particular stage, is it possible some of the other occupants are preying on them when lights go off?
is it possible you have a rogue parent eating them or other cupido?
re the catching the cupido, whenever I am catching some to move on to other homes I usually either add a fish trap to catch small ones or lower the water level to half to catch larger fish, I pump the water out into a large 100 gallon container then climb up some steps and net out the fish I want to catch, then pump the water back in.... just leaning in and trying to catch a particular fish is not an easy task. if you can do it you are better fisherman than me!!
joemc
 
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:17 am
Location: Eire

Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby RobertCupido » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:17 am

Hey Joe,

I'll get in touch with matt! I'm also not sure what might be the problem. Now I change the water in a higher frequency, the UVC is stronger, the plant growth too because of some fertilizer. I'll throw in less leaves, I reduced to the 7 1/2 Cupidos and I changed the brine shrimps and I'll wash the artemia more carefully. Oh and I will be also very careful with the watering roots of my emerse plants. They might be poisonous when hurt. Thats all I can do.

Tonight there will be some hatching, tomorrow another spawn I guess. Wish me luck, photos will follow!
RobertCupido
 
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:59 am
Location: Berlin

Re: Biotodoma Cupido

Postby joemc » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:26 am

great, those photos really should be shared with more people they are super.
I hope it was not too stressful catching the cupids you wanted to remove. I am going catching 12 from my main tank this weekend to pass on to two people looking for some, so it will be lowering the water level and netting them out, sexing them and splitting them into 2 groups of 6. so a bit of fun and lots of cursing ahead of me this weekend! :roll:
joemc
 
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