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Which Style Overflow To Get

Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:59 pm

Looking at ordering my 50 tall next week from Glasscages 36X18X17 (I know I should get bigger, in due time I'll get my 150 but have to start somewhere). Anyway question I have is I want to get an overflow put in when I order it as I'm going to run a Wet/Dry filter sump but not sure which one to get put in. I've attached 2 pics of what I'm considering, one is the traditional top to bottom overflow and the other is a horizontal overflow. I like the idea of the horizontal as doesn't take up as much room in the tank especially as its not that big of a tank. Just looking for some input and opinions on advantages and disadvantages of both.
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z105 ... w_fig1.jpg
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z105 ... _fig7b.jpg

Thanks for all your help.

Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:16 pm

i would go with the first pic if you can!!!!
then you can use this type overflow http://www.rl180reef.com/180/pages/standpipe/


hth
herb

Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:02 pm

herb wrote:i would go with the first pic if you can!!!!
then you can use this type overflow http://www.rl180reef.com/180/pages/standpipe/


hth
herb

Why would you go with the first pic (traditional overflow)? If I went this way I would have to spend more money to build a Durso Standpipe. If this is a better setup then going with the horizontal overflow then I'm all for it, but would like to know the reasoning behind your choice. I think the flow rate would be the same with either one as long as the discharge pipes are the same size.

Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:51 pm

I'd go with the first one too. You will get more water flow in the tank, as far as water being pulled in to the overflow. Down side is that you have to build or buy the stand pipes. I'd just by them. There are a few different places to buy them. I'd give you some info, but don't want to upset anyone "Moderators". Check the reviews section or PM me.

2. When you get a filter/sump make sure that you get glass. A little more expensive, but worth it in the long run. Plex glass will warp over time, and I have had nothing but bad luck with them.

Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:08 am

The problem I see is access to the overflow for cleaning. In the center back of the tank, it might be hard to get at.

One of the things I didn't expect when I got a tank with overflows was that my African females would spit into them. I was constantly fishing out fry until I gave up and went to an all-male tank.

I also had to switch to sinking pellets or food would collect in the overflow.

Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:08 am

The first choice, with the use of a durso, will be able to run much quieter. That's the only advantage (but significant) I see based on the two. Unfortunately, being glass like that, it's rather unsitely, unless you have a plan to hide it in some way.

Normally, a top to bottom overflow like that would give you the added advantage of having lower and mid level inlets in addition to the top for increased circulation, but glass won't allow for that.

One possibility you can do which I do on my 450g to prevent it from protruding so far into the tank like that would be to have them reduce the depth and make it wider instead. The curved piece of PVC can face either side of the tank rather than point front t back.

On top of that, there's no real need for the return line to be drilled in there either. You can have them drilled up high, outside the box like in the second choice. This could further reduce the needed width of the overflow.

The parts to make a durso are cheap. Or for under $30 you can buy the nice, adjustable height durso that all-glass uses for their tanks. Then you could give them the dimensions or even mail it to them to make the smallest possible enclosure around it...with it facing left or right and not front to back as well.

Cleaning shoulnd't be an issue, vacuum in there with a combination of some thin, clear rigid tubing attached to some regular tubing or python type product.

If you look at the pics of my 58g below, you can see what I'm talking about as far as how to place the durso. That's also the All GLass pipe I'm using.

My tank is acrylic and to save the real estate in the tank, I designed the overflow to mount to the outside of the tank and used the tank sidewall itself as the front/inlet for the overflow itself.

Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:09 am

the biggest reason for my choice is that is the quietest overflow, and a close second is flow rates, i have both and wish i had done the first one on all my tanks, but not willing to drill tanks again just to fix this little thing!!!!!


herb

Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:21 pm

First off I want to thank everyone for all the info provided. After reading all the responses I still have some questions and clarification on your responses so please bear with me. Just want to make sure I have a complete understanding before I make my choice.

SF_BEAST wrote: You will get more water flow in the tank, as far as water being pulled in to the overflow. Down side is that you have to build or buy the stand pipes. I'd just by them.

2. When you get a filter/sump make sure that you get glass. A little more expensive, but worth it in the long run. Plex glass will warp over time, and I have had nothing but bad luck with them.


Don't understand how you would get more flow from the first box. If both boxes were the same length and width and the same size bulkheads and drain pipes then how would it be able to flow more. If I do go with the deeper box I'm not worried about making a pipe as looked at Durso's website and seems pretty easy, but if I do decide to buy one I'll PM you.

2. I planned on getting an acrylic wet/dry filter as haven't heard anything bad about the. Actually I planned on getting an acrylic tank. What was the cause of the plexiglass warping. Did you have any kind of support across the top of the tank to prevent it from bowing out. I know from what I've read that after you get to a certain size in acrylic allot of companies us eurobracing.

The problem I see is access to the overflow for cleaning. In the center back of the tank, it might be hard to get at.


If I do plan on getting an overflow I'll put it in one of the corners as the pic was the best one I could find off their website to show the type overflow I was talking about.

My tank is acrylic and to save the real estate in the tank, I designed the overflow to mount to the outside of the tank and used the tank sidewall itself as the front/inlet for the overflow itself.
Plan on getting an acrylic myself but unfortunately won't be able to put the overflow on the outside as tank will be in the open in the living room but really like the idea though.

One possibility you can do which I do on my 450g to prevent it from protruding so far into the tank like that would be to have them reduce the depth and make it wider instead. The curved piece of PVC can face either side of the tank rather than point front t back.
Any Pics you could share with the setup your talking about.

Normally, a top to bottom overflow like that would give you the added advantage of having lower and mid level inlets in addition to the top for increased circulation, but glass won't allow for that.
Could you explain further what you mean by lower and mid level inlets. I do plan on getting any acrylic tank so might be able to do this

The first choice, with the use of a durso, will be able to run much quieter. That's the only advantage (but significant) I see based on the two. Unfortunately, being glass like that, it's rather unsitely, unless you have a plan to hide it in some way.
Again not sure how it would run much quieter as the shallower overflow the water only has a little way to fall so why would it be any louder then running a full length overflow with a durso. Which ever way I decide to go I will have a black acrylic cover around the overflow.


the biggest reason for my choice is that is the quietest overflow, and a close second is flow rates

Again not understanding why it would be quieter and why it would have higher flowrates

Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:37 am

Overflows are very noisy as the mixture of air and water get sucked in togerther at the inlet. The submerged intake of the durso solves the problem.

As far as flow, I'm not aware of there being any difference between the two. The noise without a durso usually gets worse with more flow though...like a bathtub draining in your living room. So that could become a limiting factor.

I don't see a problem with acrylic wet/dry filters. the only one that ever warped on my was the Megaflow from All-Glass. And even that was warping at the lid areas which is unique to that design. I don't like glass for sumps since I mostly use external pumps and acrylic is easy to drill on my own. There's no real reason not to go with either though for a sump. Aside from easy modding of acrylic, the other reason I went away from glass is that I was always tinkering with plumbing, filttration etc. under the tank and I shattered a glass sump accidentally once and never went back.

Look here for a diagram and info on the mid and lower level intakes:

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/ ... erflow.htm

Basically, there's a second wall behind the first. Water flow into inlets on the front at the bottom, middle and top of the tank. It will improve your circulation and mechanical filtration ability as well since you're pulling in water from 3 different levels in the tank and not just the top. All my tanks incorporate this design.

The durso standpipe brings the water level in the overflow up high to the curved inlet so there's no sound of water splashing down to the bottom of the overflow box. The one in my 58g from all-glass that you can purchase separately has adjustable height for various overflows....makes it easy to adjust.

There's pictures on the link below of my 58g external overflow design show the placement of the durso in the box if you didn't see them already.

Here's the link to my 450g with some pictures of the overflow. (Tank has since been redecorated and become cichlids).

http://www.rickysinger.com/450%20Bow%20 ... erflow.htm

Anyway, there's 4 pictures there. You can see the lower and mid level inlets by the eel's head. The 4th picture shows the water flowing over the front wall, over the second wall behind it and into the overflow area. That's 1.5" pvc and you can see that it just fits in there. The top bent part of the durso faces towards the side of the tank. If I had to face it towards the front, that overflow would protrude very far into the tank. It's very wide side to side, but not front to back. I've got 2 1.5" drains in there, 1 1.5" return and 2 1". One of the 1" is a bulkhead and 1" pipe that runs up through the overflow and above the water a bit. It's a pass through for electrical cords to the canopy above. The other is just a bulkhead with pvc and ball valve running out of the bottom of the overflow and above the sump. This allows me to drain all the water in the overflow in case any servicing or even emptying out debris.

If you look here on my homepage, the bottom pic shows a view of the overflow from the sides. With the matching black background, from the front it's practically invisible.

Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:08 pm

Thanks for the info and insight. With all the info I received, I'll probably be getting the top to bottom overflow and build a Durso to go in it. Now for the next question I have is, I plan on getting a acrylic tank and putting the overflow in one corner. Would it be beneficial to have a hole drilled on the opposite side to put a bulkhead for the return or just have it come over the top. I'm also considering building a UGJ system, does anyone have any experience with these or input.

Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:15 pm

I'd put the return on the opposite side. It'll keep the overflow smaller and enable you to blow the dirt towards the overflow from the opposite side of the tank.

Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:19 pm

Okay so what size bulkheads would I be looking at. From what I've been reading I would figure a 1" for a drain to the wet/dry and 3/4" for the return to the tank. Also would you go with schedule 40 or schedule 80 bulkhead fittings.

Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:31 am

Get the Aqueon (AllGlass) over flow it draws water from top middle and bottom
Image

with the Durso type stand pipe and return

Image

comes as a kit. The aquarium company installs the chamber and you install the pipes. Has 1" out and 3/4 in that branches into 2 returns that are flexible and you can point where you want.

Flow is about 600 to 700 gph so you would want a pump that is one size larger ie Mag 9.

You can have them install chamber and holes where ever you like. They also have a corner option.

The kits come complete with bulkheads.

I installed 2 of these on my 180. The water leaving the tank is very quiet. Had a problem with bubbling noise as it went into sump inlet chamber but I just installed a filter sock and cut the noise significantly.

To prevent surging just make sure your outflow pipe is slightly off level down to the sump inlet chamber.

Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:47 am

Sorry, I just realized this was for a 50 gal tank. To be honest, this system would be too much. Takes too much room and from what I see 20" high would be a minimum. Buy a nice canister and it will be a lot cheaper for you.

When you get your 150 then consider this type of overflow system.

Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:28 pm

I would just get one of these: http://www.txholeyrocks.com/catalog/
Reason being is for your sized tank it's efficient, beautiful with the slots and being black, and you eliminate the space that the other type your looking at. You can go up to 800GPH with this. What if your decorating, you can move the overflow box. This is a stand pipe, so it's virtually quiet. Proof is in the pudding with the video. The above picture the SLOTS are so narrow what piece of poo or debris could go through the slots. Ridiculous!
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