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Looking for 3rd mbuna species recommendation (75g)

4K views 51 replies 8 participants last post by  DJRansome 
#1 ·
I'm in the early research & planning phase for a new 75-gallon mbuna tank. I'd like to do a slightly modified version of the "purple and yellow" cookie cutter plan:

Pseudotropheus acei (6)
Labidochromis caeruleus (8)
?????? (6)

What would be a good 3rd species to add for a bit more variety and contrast? I don't want anything too aggressive. Thanks for any suggestions!
 
#27 ·
If you set your expectations that you will have to remove the rocks from your tank from time-to-time, you will find it is really not that big of a chore. Not just extra males, but holding females or sick fish, etc. Two hours and done for a six foot tank. You just swish them back down to the glass.

Quite often you can divide off 1/3 of the tank and just remove rocks in that section. Shoo the fish into that section for netting.

You are not likely to have to remove extra males for six to 12 months, and then it would not be weekly...you might remove one every month or couple of months, and you might find an extra or two might be tolerated.

The same is true for any mbuna and really for any African...get six and remove extras when a pair forms for Tangs, etc.
 
#28 ·
Smeagol said:
DJRansome said:
Shoot for 20 individuals after any troublesome fish (males?) are removed. I would go 1m:7f on the maingano and divide up the remaining 12 slots between the labs and acei according to your preference.
Now that I'm working on my rockscape, something occurred to me.... I imagine that those "troublesome male" manganos will be impossible to catch & remove when they are able to take advantage of all the nooks & crannies in the rock piles. So how do you do it? I don't want to have to remove and re-stack my entire rockscape every week while I sort out the m:f ratio. (Even if I did remove all my rocks, how would I get them back down onto the glass bottom so they're not resting on the sand?) Is this a legitimate concern, or am I making it more complicated than it really is? I kind of had my heart set on getting mangano, but maybe I should reconsider. Any thoughts/advice?
That's the exact problem/dilemma I'm having. I have rocks piled up to the surface almost and there is no way I can catch any fish in there without removing everything. So far the best plan I have is to remove the rocks only once, when/if I have way too many fries that survive, and then change the fish to all males so I don't have that problem anymore. These guys are crazy breeders. All my females were holding eggs in less than a month. I'll be in big trouble if many of them survive.

Cichlids tanks sure do keep you on your toes, lol !
 
#29 ·
DJRansome said:
..... You just swish them back down to the glass ......
That seems contradictory to the standard advice. If it's that easy to just swish the rocks back down on to the glass, then why does everyone make such a big deal about placing them on the glass before adding sand in the first place?
 
#31 ·
Smeagol said:
why does everyone make such a big deal about placing them on the glass before adding sand in the first place?
One less step and less chance for grains under the rock. The swishing does make a mess to really get to the glass. But if there were no way to do this, you would only be able to set up a tank one time and you would have to leave it for life. :thumb:
 
#33 ·
Idech said:
Smeagol said:
Idech said:
...... These guys are crazy breeders. All my females were holding eggs in less than a month. ......
Which guys are you referring to specifically? Which species?
White tail acei, demasoni, astatotilapia latifasciata (lake Victoria hap). Yellow labs, I'm not sure but one might be holding.
You have demasoni in the same tank with acei and yellow labs? :eek:
 
#34 ·
DJRansome said:
Shoot for 20 individuals after any troublesome fish (males?) are removed.... What I do is buy 14 or more and hope to get 7 females. When you work with cichlids long enough, you end up with an extra tank or two and a relationship with a LFS who will take your adults for store credit
Does this approach (i.e., buying many more juveniles than you ultimately want to have in the tank, and then reducing their numbers) apply to all mbuna or just the highly aggressive species? Case in point, the "purple and yellow" cookie cutter setup for 75g, which is supposed to be "great for beginners," suggests the following two options:

8 adult acei and 10 adult yellow labs (total 18)
-OR-
14 juvenile acei and 16 juvenile yellow labs (total 30)

The logic seems to suggest that, even with these relatively "peaceful" species, you should still expect to remove 12 out of 30 fish. That's an attrition rate of 40%! Is this typical? Even for a supposedly easy cookie cutter setup like this one?
 
#35 ·
If you get 4 species in a 75G and start with 8 unsexed juveniles you might have to rehome 12 problem males. Or with the more peaceful species like labs and acei some of the extra males might well be fine in the tank.

Demasoni is the one that Ad Konings suggested a large number overstocked did better than the smaller numbers they used for other species. Because you want to end up with 12 you could acquire more problem males than a species where you are just want to end up with 5. It is an exception.

In a 75G ending up with 20 fish in a mixed species tank is about right.

Many different Members wrote various articles and prepared various cookie cutter tanks. The one listed worked well for one or more experienced Members. There are some I wouldn't do, but it gives newbies some ideas to start with.

You actually end up breaking even or making money. You buy the fish at $8 and sell them at $10 to the LFS when they are mature.
 
#36 ·
Smeagol said:
You have demasoni in the same tank with acei and yellow labs? :eek:
Yes, I do. Before I added them I did my research (even though everyone here said it wouldn't work, and maybe they're right and it won't work long term) and found people who had success with that mix. They are doing very well and not overly aggressive. I wasn't lucky and got 3 males and only 1 female as it wasn't possible to tell them apart. But there are so many places to hide now with the 75 gallons that males don't get on each other's nerves and the female is nowhere to be seen (and not behind the filter, she's just living her life in the rocks).

Like with any other fish, if it becomes a nightmare I will rehome them if need be. But so far they are a great addition to my tank. Fantastic fish.
 
#37 ·
DJRansome said:
Agree on the hara, but when I had both hara and acei I found I was wanting more contrast. I would either bump up the counts or go with the barred Cynotilapia (like Cynotilapia zebroides Cobue) or go with rusties (Iodotropheus sprengerae).
I'm reconsidering this earlier suggestion of yours. But I'm a little bit confused.

(1) Are Cynotilapia zebroides and Cynotilapia afra the same thing? When I try to find more information about "zebroides," the search results keep showing me "afra."
(2) All the different Cynotilapia zebroides listed in the profiles are essentially the same, right? They just have slightly different coloration?
(3) What m:f ratio for the zebroides?
(4) Are zebroides commonly available to buy or are they hard to find?

Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for your advice!
 
#38 ·
1-afra is the old name and zebroides is the new name.
2-I would not say they are the same...some are more aggressive than others but none are as aggressive as auratus. Cobue is among the most peaceful and Jalo Reef is an example of a more assertive zebroides.
3-1m:4f works for all the Cynotilapia of which I am aware. Sometimes additional males are safe but may not color in a group. Note that females are drab.
4-I have not shopped in a LFS in years, they are always available online but maybe only a couple of species at any one time. I see 4 cynotilapia and 2 zebroides on one of the lists right now.
 
#39 ·
DJRansome said:
1-afra is the old name and zebroides is the new name.
2-I would not say they are the same...some are more aggressive than others but none are as aggressive as auratus. Cobue is among the most peaceful and Jalo Reef is an example of a more assertive zebroides.
3-1m:4f works for all the Cynotilapia of which I am aware. Sometimes additional males are safe but may not color in a group. Note that females are drab.
4-I have not shopped in a LFS in years, they are always available online but maybe only a couple of species at any one time. I see 4 cynotilapia and 2 zebroides on one of the lists right now.
So, in your opinion would zebroides be a better choice than maingano to be tank-mates with acei and yellow labs, considering that this is my first mbuna tank?

What are your thoughts on the all-male variety packs that some online vendors offer? Obviously they won't breed, but I'm not in any hurry for breeding.

Can you tell me in a DM which list has the 2 zebroides?
 
#40 ·
I would choose the maingano for the color and in a 75G you should not have trouble with them as a beginner.

I don't think much of vendors that sell variety packs, let alone what you might get in one. Seems to me you would just get leftovers without regard to compatibility and reports from Members who have bought these supports the theory. Even starting with a perfect mix, all-male is a more challenging tank than mixed gender mbuna, and you would need at least one extra tank and plan on tinkering with the mix over a period of up to two years to get the max fish to color.

PM sent.
 
#41 ·
Agreed. I wouldn't consider getting a variety pack, but I was curious what your thoughts were about them. I expect the males wouldn't color up nicely without any females around. Besides, I want to pick my own species. Thanks for all the tips!
 
#42 ·
Carefully select males from Lake Malawi (not so much Lake Victoria) will color in the presence of other males and without females. The competition between them keeps the color up. With a good stable mix having 80% of the males colorful would be a good result.
 
#43 ·
I'm having a heck of a time making up my mind! Fortunately, I have time to think about it, because I haven't even filled my tank and started cycling yet. I want:

Acei (definitely)
Yellow labs (definitely)
Maingano or zebroides cobue or rusties (I can't decide!)

Is there any way I can do a combination of 4 of the above species in a 75g?

:fish:
 
#47 ·
DJRansome said:
What many of us do is buy 2X the amount of females we want to end up with. So if you want 4 females, buy 8 unsexed juveniles.
So then, when I initially stock my tank, I'm going to have 38 fish total. That seems crazy to me. Is that really how things work in mbuna world?

1:4 acei... buy 8 unsexed juveniles
1:4 yellow labs... buy 8 unsexed juveniles
1:4 rusties... buy 8 unsexed juveniles
1:7 maingano... buy 14 unsexed juveniles
 
#48 ·
You can do less. Some like to avoid having to buy more in a year to grow out additional females. Buying large numbers of fish saves on online shipping. But if you buy 5 of each now you can tinker with the male/female mix in a year as issues arise.
 
#49 ·
DJRansome said:
You can do less. Some like to avoid having to buy more in a year to grow out additional females. Buying large numbers of fish saves on online shipping. But if you buy 5 of each now you can tinker with the male/female mix in a year as issues arise.
But during that first year, before I start "tinkering" with the m:f mix, isn't 38 fish too many? I know the juvies are small, but still.....
 
#50 ·
I think you will be fine. But like I said, if you want to start with less and buy fish again later, you certainly can.

When I bought the msobo I ordered 8 they delivered 4 and I think I have 3m:1f. It has been a rocky ride, but damage has been minimal. I will be buying 8 again to try to get more females.

The labs mature at 1.5" so you may be tinkering with them sooner than the others.
 
#51 ·
DJRansome said:
I think you will be fine. But like I said, if you want to start with less and buy fish again later, you certainly can.

When I bought the msobo I ordered 8 they delivered 4 and I think I have 3m:1f. It has been a rocky ride, but damage has been minimal. I will be buying 8 again to try to get more females.

The labs mature at 1.5" so you may be tinkering with them sooner than the others.
Why did they only deliver 4? If it was an error, they should've immediately shipped you 4 more, free of charge. If they only had 4 available, they should've cleared it with you before shipping them in the first place.
 
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