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Two holding demasoni

13K views 57 replies 7 participants last post by  Chrislisk 
#1 ·
Hi. Separated two holding demasoni from my main tank about a week ago. They currently reside in a 2ft by 1ft maternity tank. Water is all fine and I have some rock for them to hide. Both females have barely come out, one hiding under a rock and the other round the back of the heater. I put a little food in but neither wanted to eat. Both look like they are constantly chewing with a massive bulge in their throats. Is this normal behaviour for holding females to do pretty much nothing? And if not what should i do? Thanks
 
#28 ·
DJRansome said:
I have not noticed any difference in future parenting between fish that are stripped and fish that spit naturally...
That may (or may not) be true for Mbuna, but the collective experience with mouthbrooding Tanganyikans has been that stripping is counterproductive for future parental behavior both in that generation and in the next. This makes perfect biological sense; it's called 'imprinting.'

DJRansome said:
...That said, I rarely strip and I do notice fry count diminishing within a day or two after the mother spits them...
I have never seen that. Perhaps it depends on tank size; my brooding tanks are all 36 or 48 inches. Even in smaller tanks, I have never seen fry predation in Tropheus.
 
#29 ·
Chrislisk said:
As she keeps sucking them back in I have managed to get her into a fry/breeding floating tank in the maternity tank. I'm thinking when she lets them out again they will go down into the fry trap. I'm kinda doing what I think is best here!
If I read this whole thread from start to finish, my impression is that you're trying to hard, and all this fussing is unnecessary.
 
#30 ·
Sir kieth I am trying hard and yes I have a tendency to fuss, just don't want to mess up! So your advice is........just leave them? Let them be as they want to be and when the time is right just remove the females as and when? I really do appreciate your advice
 
#31 ·
@shiftyfox my internal filter has the bottom of my wife's tights over it......no way any fry will get through. The sponge is hard up against the vents anyway so it's all ok. I'm not wanting to strip her. As much as I really want to raise this fry I also want to see the process and how the whole mouthbrooding works. I think watching the two females I'm learning too. One least question as one of the females are letting the fry in and out, there are no egg sacs and they are free swimming at what stage do I add a little food? Thanks
 
#32 ·
If free swimming i feed straight away, 3 times a day.
I start off off with NLS grow (powder) but crushed flake is fine.
Once they are 5-6 weeks old they should be able to eat 0.5mm pellets.
The two batches I currently have are 5 months old, I feed them 3 times a day, each sitting I like a mixture of flake and half mm NLS 'Thera a' pellets.
I understand you want to observe and that's great. Next time give stripping a go.
So far I've done 35 water changes...
 
#34 ·
So when would you start feeding bearing in mind right now they are all in her mouth? She lets them out when I'm not looking at the tank and when I walk in or go to the tank she collects them back up quick and they are all gone. Shall I just put some in for them for when she lets them out?
 
#36 ·
Chrislisk said:
Sir kieth I am trying hard and yes I have a tendency to fuss, just don't want to mess up! So your advice is........just leave them? Let them be as they want to be and when the time is right just remove the females as and when? I really do appreciate your advice
Yes, that's what I'd do. If the female is still taking the fry into her mouth whenever you approach the tank with a net, it's too early. Once she doesn't want to hold the fry anymore, you can move her. It's not the end of the world if you lose a batch or two; they will breed again. Good luck.
 
#37 ·
One female for the last few days has now let her fry go and not sucked them back in, although they have stayed close to her. I plan to put her in the main tank tonight after feeding her for the last few days. My question is how I get her back in the best possible way. My idea was do it late at night when others are all calm to not draw attention to her. Net her into a small tub of the water she is in and mix some back from the main tank, then place her back in. Would this be correct or would anyone do things different? Thanks
 
#38 ·
I keep all my tank parameters the same, so I just net her from one tank to the other with no special prep.

I have no luck with the night thing because by the time I get the net in everyone is awake. I just do it in the daytime.

Changing 50% daily on the fry tank...it helps to net her while the water is low.
 
#40 ·
Yes, but that should have been happening from the day they were spit. If it has not been, then don't start until you check the parameters.

With daily changes, you would have had pH and nitrates close to your tap water.

Now you have to check your starting place.

BTW matching main tank and maternity tank parameters includes nitrates. You don't want to go to cleaner water suddenly, it can kill the fish.
 
#42 ·
So far so good; you certainly have put the effort into this! I must say, I have enjoyed this thread, because it made me recall the excitement of my first Mbuna spawning- Labeotropheus fuelleborni, red-top male x OB female. The fry were so cute! That was 1971, and I was living in NJ, within driving distance of the main African importers. A very fun time! :thumb:
 
#43 ·
DJRansome said:
BTW matching main tank and maternity tank parameters includes nitrates. You don't want to go to cleaner water suddenly, it can kill the fish.
I wonder if that's why I lost a batch of fry a few months back, every single fry but one died.
The water parameters were all good. I put about 30% main tank water and 70% fresh water into the fry tank.
Over two days they stated dying off and I couldn't figure out what was going off.
 
#44 ·
Good is relative.

My point for OP is you would want maternity tank and fry tank to both have matching nitrate levels. Even full grown fish can be killed if they are used to higher nitrates and you give them a 100% water change.

My solution would have been to change water in the tank with the higher nitrates and then just net the female.

Lake Malawi and Lake Victoria fry I have never had to use main tank water for fry tank water changes. Lake Tanganyika fry...yes.
 
#47 ·
What I do is put the holding female in a 5 gallon plastic tote/box with plenty of very small holes (I think 1/8 inch in diameter). The tote is in the main tank, with a couple of rocks to weigh it down. I put her in the box in the second week. I put some hornwort in the box too, as well as a small terracotta pot, if the fish feels threatened. By the 18th day, I usually put a little food in the box to encourage her to spit, which she usually does. Once I notice the fry in the box, I catch the mother, gently strip her of any remaining fry, and put her back in the main tank. I move the fry immediately after that to a grow out tank. For the grow out tank, I use a big plastic tote which I believe is 55 gallons (4 and a half feet long, a little more than a foot wide). I like this method because the other fish in the tank can see and smell her, so that when I introduce the female back into the tank, it isn't like I'm introducing a new fish, which can lead to aggression. I don't really like stripping too much because it isn't very natural. Nowadays, I just let holding females spit into the tank, which is a lot more budget friendly. As previously mentioned, you will not be able to keep them all.
 
#48 ·
So fry are safe from adults in the main tank because the plastic is rigid, as opposed to the usual net boxes where the adults in the main tank crush the fry right through the net and suck the remains through.

Why don't the fry escape through the holes?

Why not put the mom in her own 20G tank to wait for time to spit? Does she seem comfortable being confined to the 5G box for several weeks?
 
#49 ·
Not wanting to steer off subject here but first females fry are all in the tank and doing well. Second female still has not spit yet!
I have a 5 gallon empty tank at the moment but........I only got a sponge filter three days ago which I am seeding on the main tank. My question is if the remaining female has not spit by tomorrow will it be ok to move the female to her own tank. I am worried the fry in there will eat the younger fry when they come. I would transfer the seeded sponge filter and add a dose of fluval cycle which I have over the next few days to add the needed bacteria? I assume the bio load for one holding female won't be much? Or should I just leave her in the tank with the fry? Thoughts..... Thanks
 
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