Central American Cichlids • Green Terror and friends

Discussion regarding only Central American Cichlid species. (Guapotes, Jack Dempseys, Red Devils, Firemouths, Convicts, Texas Cichlids, etc.)

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Green Terror and friends

Postby Sbloxy123 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:59 pm

Hello there..

I'm upgrading to a 55 Gal (240 litre) tank on Monday :dancing:
I've spent many hours looking for a new stock so thought i would come here for some of your suggestions and opinions..
I currently have Mbuna and will be looking to upgrade to 75g - 150g in 2-3 years time.

My thoughts..
Keep 1 x yellow Tail Acei and 1 x Yellow Lab.. (will the mbuna survive??)
Buy - 1 x Green Terror and 2 x convicts

or..
Donate/sell all of my Mbuna.
buy - 1 x Green Terror, 1 x Jack Dempsey and 2x Convicts.

Also was wondering.. I obviously want a male. Would you suggest i buy 3-4 juveniles of each and once i know the sex, sell them on?

It would be great to have any stocking suggestions and advice. I do really want a Green Terror. Not sure about a Jack Dempsey..?

Thanks :)
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:40 pm
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Re: Green Terror and friends

Postby Sbloxy123 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:04 pm

not sure ifI got the tank size right?? - 240 uk litres = 63 US gallons / 53 UK gallons !?
If anyone knows what tank size i have in US Gallons, it would be really helpful!
Thanks again
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Re: Green Terror and friends

Postby Sbloxy123 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:16 pm

47.6" x 16.1" x 21.7" - The dimensions of my tank - looks like it may be over 60 US gallons!
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:40 pm
Location: Hertford

Re: Green Terror and friends

Postby Sbloxy123 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:10 pm

no-one cares about me :(
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Re: Green Terror and friends

Postby Deeda » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:20 pm

Maybe one of the experts or members familiar with your question on stocking haven't been on lately.

As far as your tank size, my conversion shows a 240 litre is about 60 US gallons but your listed dimensions shows it closer to 72 gallons assuming you used the outside dimensions of the tank.

I would choose either Lake Malawi or one of the Americas species but not both.
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Re: Green Terror and friends

Postby Oscar6 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:32 pm

Africans dont mix with South/Central Americans. Some exceptions are always in the cards, but general Malawi Mbuna, no. Water and diet requirements are different. Unlikely you will get your hands on a true Green Terror. Typical fish store "Terrors" are Gold Saums, Acara blends, possibly a Rivalatus. These fish do not live up to their names and really cant stand up to Dempseys or even the smaller but plenty potent Convict. Could work in a very big tank, but 4ft 60 g doesnt offer a lot of space for aggressive territorial cichlids to coexist. I have had several tanks with Cons and Dempseys together. Both Central American, same diet and water requirements. Similar attitudes and aggression levels. GT does better with milder mannered fish, South American soft water species. Other Acaras, the electric blues are popular, should fare well with a GT. What you really should do is have a stock that will be comfortable in your source water. What kind of tap water do you have? Soft acidic, GT and South's like that. Slightly harder more alkaline is Central friendly. High Ph, liqiud rock so to speak is in the African rift lake fish's comfort zone
1500 gallons of South and Central American cichlids. Some with a "wee" bit of attitude.
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Re: Green Terror and friends

Postby BC in SK » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:09 pm

Oscar6 wrote: High Ph, liqiud rock so to speak is in the African rift lake fish's comfort zone

That is sort of true for lake Tanganyika (which is high pH, above pH 8.5 , and fairly hard, dGH 12*) and even more true for the rift lakes like lake Rudolf, from which no commonly available cichlids come from.......but is completely untrue for the vast majority of Rift lake cichlids which come from the much softer waters of lake Malawi, lake Victoria, lake kyoga ect.
https://malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm
Lake Malawi is anything but liquid rock. Saying something over and over for 40+ years doesn't make it true. It has been measured by science. Not very debatable. On top of that, many aquarists have actually gone to lake Malawi and taken their own measurements. By any standards, it's fairly soft water. It's not even all that high pH. My link shows pH measurement form the surface where Co2 is very low. At the depths mbuna and most haps and peacocks live, pH is typically measured at around 7.6-8.1 at many of the popular collection points. There is nothing hard about water that measures dGH 3* - 5.5*. KH of about 6*. Electrical conductivity of about 200- 240 microseimens......again reflecting the fact it is not all that hard.
Lake Victoria is even softer. dGH= 1*-3*. Electrical conductivity of 90-145 microseimens (softer then many parts of the amazon river!). Again, pH much lower at depths where fish live dependent on levels of C02 and also because it's low KH. Lake Kyoga (from which Astatotilapia latifaciata comes from) is mostly similar to lake Victoria water. Soft. pH 7.6 at surface and already down to pH 7.1 only 10 feet down.
The fact that these cichlids can do well in captivity, in water many times harder then they come from really demonstrates that particular water parameters really are not that important at all. If the aquarist was really trying to replicate natural conditions, most people keeping Malawi and Victorians should be investing in an RO unit, rather then dumping "cichlid salts" into their tap water which is likely already much harder then the water these fish come from. Of coarse that would be pointless, because like most hardy cichlids, particular water parameters are seldom important at all.
Oscar6 wrote: Slightly harder more alkaline is Central friendly.

A lot of water in CA is more then slightly hard and alkaline. Just as an example salvini has an extensive range. Sympatric with many cichlids icluding JD and all Thorichthys speices.https://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=109 pH often over 8.0. A dGH ranging as low as 8*, all the way to the extremes of 50* and above. Bear in mind that even found in it's softest waters (dGH 8*), it's still considerably harder then lake Malawi and lake Vicotoria.
About 10 years back, I spent some time looking through academic journals on water quality to find measurements in CA waters. Found lots on the 2 biggest lakes. Found at least 6 on lake Nicaragua. One in particular had measurements at numerous locations, at different depths for every month of the year. pH range for lake Nicaragua: pH 7.8-8.8 with the over whelming majority of measurements around pH 8.5. It is considered moderately hard, though of the top of my head, I do not recall any specific values (generally something moderately hard would likely be around dGH10*). Lake Manugua could be considered a soda lake. It is not as hard as lake Nicaragua, but has super high KH. Values in 3 academic papers I found showed pH 9.5. These are measurements for the purpose of science.....not somebodies made up recommendation!
Oscar6 wrote:Soft acidic, GT and South's like that.

It's true, GT(Andinoacara rivulatus does come from very soft water.https://www.cichlidae.com/species.php?id=4 Though, usually more neutral pH. The common thought (even also mentioned in the link) is that particular water parameters are generally not too important in keeping this fish.
Andinoacara blombergi from the river Esmeraldes does come from slightly harder, more alkaline (about as soft as lake Victoria) and Andinoacara stalsbergi comes from higher pH (eg. 8.2) and often extremely hard water and is often found in brackish.
S.A. is a huge continent with every type of water conceivable. The generalization for soft, acidic comes from some parts of the Amazon river, but even focused on the Amazon river system, there is huge differences from one area to another as well as 3 distinct water types (white, black and clear.)
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