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Shipping A Holding Female

3K views 46 replies 7 participants last post by  Smeagol 
#1 ·
I recently ordered a couple additional female Yellow Labs. I think one of the females I received is holding eggs! Is this possible? Wouldn't the stress of shipping cause her to "abort?" (probably not the correct word) Also, some breeders use sedatives in shipping. Would the sedative harm the eggs?
 
#2 ·
Possible! She would not necessarily spit the eggs just due to shipping. Hopefully your breeder did not use a sedative...did yours? I would expect the fry would be OK, but hard to tell without knowing the chemical that was used.
 
#3 ·
I contacted the breeder. They can't tell me for sure if sedatives were used on my order. But they told me that when they do use sedatives, they use Aquacalm. I wish I could get a picture of the fish in question, but I don't know where she is at present.
 
#5 ·
DJRansome said:
I could not find anything about the impact of Metomidate hydrochloride on fry. Are you going to raise them?
I don't know.... I wasn't planning on this.... I'm not prepared for it.... I don't know what to do.... Help! Panic! I don't have an empty tank to put her in even if I could catch her, which I can't.
 
#7 ·
DJRansome said:
I would let this batch go. You can't be absolutely sure who she spawned with.

Are you going to eventually raise fry?
That's true; they could be hybrids, huh? I hadn't thought of that. What do you mean by "let this batch go?"

Do I eventually want to raise fry? I hadn't decided yet. I expected to have a couple more months to think it over and research what all is involved. I live in a small apartment; don't have room for a lot of tanks.....
 
#15 ·
noki said:
Can you tell if she is still holding? If they are survived all of this so far, give them a chance if they survive in the rocks. If they are hybrids, just don't give away or let breed as adults.
Yes, she is definitely still holding. Is there any way to tell how much longer she has to go before she spits them?
 
#18 ·
Here's how I think of this. I think it's actually super common to get a holding female.
I'm going to guess that you ordered a "guaranteed female" and I'm also going to guess that Dave was involved somewhere along the line.

If I were in the business of selling "guaranteed female" mbuna, I would simply wait until one had a mouth full, and then send her. What is a more sure way to know? This has some unintended consequences, though. In your case, you got a holing fish and babies you didn't know what to do with. I got a horrifically emaciated fish who nearly died. I think that she had been holding for some time and was therefore predictibly skinny. I'm guessing that they sent her right after spitting. Lucy barely made it, and I won't be doing that again.

For the question of "When do females spit?" The answer is yes. We see new fry in the tank ALL THE TIME. Since we put 10 petricolas in there, we do NOT see fry surviving to join the population. They get spit, they get found. They last maybe 1-2 days, then they're gone.

Sometimes though, they do it all dramatic like. Sometimes, the new moms just get so hungry during feeding time, and well - Spit. During Feeding. The results are "exciting" and predictable. I personally hate seeing it, as, well, I... just don't want to. Last time it happened, Calypso, our try-hard Astatotilapia Latifasciatus released 4(?) fry about dead center in the tank high in the water column just after feeding. Just kinda Opened her mouth and was like "mama's hungry, get the heck out!" and there they were. One, whom La Sra. Strum has now named Icharus (sic. I think it's funny. Whatever.) flew high and down the overflow. He has earned the place in a grow-out tank.
 
#19 ·
SenorStrum said:
Here's how I think of this. I think it's actually super common to get a holding female.
I'm going to guess that you ordered a "guaranteed female" and I'm also going to guess that Dave was involved somewhere along the line.

If I were in the business of selling "guaranteed female" mbuna, I would simply wait until one had a mouth full, and then send her. What is a more sure way to know? This has some unintended consequences, though. In your case, you got a holing fish and babies you didn't know what to do with. I got a horrifically emaciated fish who nearly died. I think that she had been holding for some time and was therefore predictibly skinny. I'm guessing that they sent her right after spitting. Lucy barely made it, and I won't be doing that again.

For the question of "When do females spit?" The answer is yes. We see new fry in the tank ALL THE TIME. Since we put 10 petricolas in there, we do NOT see fry surviving to join the population. They get spit, they get found. They last maybe 1-2 days, then they're gone.

Sometimes though, they do it all dramatic like. Sometimes, the new moms just get so hungry during feeding time, and well - Spit. During Feeding. The results are "exciting" and predictable. I personally hate seeing it, as, well, I... just don't want to. Last time it happened, Calypso, our try-hard Astatotilapia Latifasciatus released 4(?) fry about dead center in the tank high in the water column just after feeding. Just kinda Opened her mouth and was like "mama's hungry, get the heck out!" and there they were. One, whom La Sra. Strum has now named Icharus (sic. I think it's funny. Whatever.) flew high and down the overflow. He has earned the place in a grow-out tank.
This fish did not come from "Dave," but your theory still makes sense regardless of who the breeder is. I was mostly just surprised that she continued holding throughout the shipping ordeal. I figured the stress would trigger her to give up on this brood. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability right now to set up a grow-out tank, so I guess it will be law of the jungle for this batch... "nature red in tooth and claw" and all that.

SenorStrum said:
....One, whom La Sra. Strum has now named Icharus (sic. I think it's funny. Whatever.) flew high and down the overflow.....
Nicely done! A classical reference and a play on a dreaded fish disease. Worst name for a fish store: Ich-R-Us Aquatics.
 
#21 ·
Sure. Make the parameters match your main tank. Are you OK with the fish digging up or eating the plants as they mature? What will you do with the fry?

I assume you will remove the tetras, rasboras and shrimp?
 
#22 ·
DJRansome said:
Sure. Make the parameters match your main tank. Are you OK with the fish digging up or eating the plants as they mature? What will you do with the fry?

I assume you will remove the tetras, rasboras and shrimp?
I don't care if they destroy the plants. One of my reasons for getting into the mbuna hobby in the first place was because I wanted to get out of the live plant hobby. The tetras and rasboras are the remnant survivors of a planted 55g that I had running for a long time. They are 8+ years old, and I don't expect them to be around much longer in any case. What will I do with the fry? Don't know... maybe sell them or give them away... maybe try to introduce a few back into the main tank if there's room... ??? I haven't decided for sure yet if I'm going to do it. Just considering ideas of what to do with my 20g once the current inhabitants "move on."
 
#23 ·
Oh, those choices, hmmmm....? :-?
- Most of us just let the holding female go full term. She eventually spits out the babies and the other Cichlids in there, catfish, loaches, etc.... just take care of the bizness. It's usually over in seconds. And well, that way there's just no baby fish to worry about.
- or -
- You do like some of us have (or will), and get some more valuable Cichlids. Kind of surprising to learn just how valuable, grown-out F1 babies can actually be from WC parents. I myself made literally 'tens' of dollars ( :roll: ) in selling F1 baby fish from WC Cichlid parents originating from CA and SA. Some of those parent fish I kept then, I even collected originally myself.
-
And no... you aren't gonna get rich or anything selling baby fish like that. But, it is kind of fun raising the babies out. And, selling them helps to off-set (at least partially) some of the costs of being in this hobby. I remember doing a guest speaker presentation (Collecting in Honduras) for The Potomac Valley Aquarium Society in Fairfax Virginia. I brought in some F1 Amatatlania spilurus and Parachromis motaguensis babies that I gave away to the club to make money in an auction for the members. The amounts bid on those baby fish that day, were pretty eye raising! :eek:
 
#24 ·
The holding female that I got by accident has a couple favorite hiding places where she usually hangs out. But tonight she's swimming all over the tank and looking a bit stressed. She even started glass surfing. Could this be a sign that she's getting ready to spit? Maybe she's trying to get away from all the other fish....???
 
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