General African Cichlid Discussion • Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

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Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby johnnymax » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:22 am

Finally getting some tilapia. My tank is currently filled native fish. Mosquiti fish, perch, sailfin mollys and a spotted bass. I caught them a few weeks ago.
I plan to release them into my pond.
Anyway.
I ordered two type of Mozambique Tilapia.
I ordered the standard normal tilapia and I also ordered some "Hawaiian Gold Tilapia" (albino)
They are very small fry, but I hope to mix them and see if any variations in color show up.
Both types are full blooded Mozambique Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus) which is the only breed of tilapia allowed in Texas according to the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department.

I will try to cross the regular talipia with the Hawaiian.
I assume the result will be the dominant non albino colors.
I will then breed those offspring with albinos, then their offspring with albinos and so on.
I am hoping that eventually lighter colors, or patterns will show up.
If it does then to try to stabilize the color over generations.
And have others breed them also just in case I lose my fish. (Always backup) :D

Here is a picture of the Hawaiian Gold Breeders I ordered from
Hawaiian Gold.jpg


Here is a Standard Mozambique Tilapia
Mozambique.jpg


Just doing this for fun, not seriously.
Comments are welcome. I have never tried to do anything like this, but is has always been a desire.
I work so I can buy things, give things & do things...
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby johnnymax » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:28 am

Question....
Is it possible to breed fish that are tropical to tolerate colder water temps?
How would you go about that?
Would you even want to do something like that?
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby DJRansome » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:34 am

If you keep tropicals at cold-water fish temperatures I would expect ich.
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby johnnymax » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:54 am

DJRansome wrote:If you keep tropicals at cold-water fish temperatures I would expect ich.


I don't have ich in a native unheated tank?
Maybe add a little salt...
It would be nice to be able to keep some in the small pond on my back patio year round though.
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby noddy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:49 pm

johnnymax wrote:Finally getting some tilapia. My tank is currently filled native fish. Mosquiti fish, perch, sailfin mollys and a spotted bass. I caught them a few weeks ago.
I plan to release them into my pond.
Anyway.
I ordered two type of Mozambique Tilapia.
I ordered the standard normal tilapia and I also ordered some "Hawaiian Gold Tilapia" (albino)
They are very small fry, but I hope to mix them and see if any variations in color show up.
Both types are full blooded Mozambique Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus) which is the only breed of tilapia allowed in Texas according to the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department.

I will try to cross the regular talipia with the Hawaiian.
I assume the result will be the dominant non albino colors.
I will then breed those offspring with albinos, then their offspring with albinos and so on.
I am hoping that eventually lighter colors, or patterns will show up.
If it does then to try to stabilize the color over generations.
And have others breed them also just in case I lose my fish. (Always backup) :D

Here is a picture of the Hawaiian Gold Breeders I ordered from
Hawaiian Gold.jpg


Here is a Standard Mozambique Tilapia
Mozambique.jpg


Just doing this for fun, not seriously.
Comments are welcome. I have never tried to do anything like this, but is has always been a desire.


They don't look like albinos (unless it's just the lighting). They just look like they lack pigment. Albino's should have red eyes.
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby DJRansome » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:04 pm

Natives, at least here in NJ, are cold water fish.

How cold will the water get in winter there?
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby johnnymax » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:16 pm

noddy wrote:They don't look like albinos (unless it's just the lighting). They just look like they lack pigment. Albino's should have red eyes.


I agree. According to the history of this fish, it originated in Hawaii when a Mozambique Tilapia was born with a light gold color. Over time it has been selectively breed. I know it has been around for at least 20 years now. But genetically it is a Mozambique Tilapia and far as all I have read.
I am interested in this fish because the only Tilapia allows in Texas are Mozambique Tilapia. According to the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department anyway.
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby johnnymax » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:28 pm

DJRansome wrote:Natives, at least here in NJ, are cold water fish.
How cold will the water get in winter there?


It is not a cold water fish. I read they can tolerate water only down to 56 f.
I was just curious that, if through breeding and culling if you could make a tropical fish into a cold water fish.
I have always wondered about that.
I kind of know the answer to that.... It's probabily no!
I did have some tilapia in my pond about 7 years ago.
They sell them for bass ponds in Texas because they will eat up all the plants and algae and clean up your pond.
They multiply so fast the bass can't eat them all, but they do eat a lot and you end up with a bunch of big fat bass in your pond.
They survived in my pond for three years over two winters. But my pond is 30' deep.
When we had a hard cold winter they became catfish food. :(
I does seem that breeding fish to tolerate colder temps would be straight forward.
Just select the ones that tolerate the coldest temp as you lower the temp slowly over time.
Breed the last ones still alive, then repeat and repeat.
Or you could just end up with a bunch of dead fish. :(
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby DJRansome » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:15 pm

Evolution in a tank.

People who keep natives here (like bluegill for example) refer to the tank as a cold water tank. Colder than it would be if you kept it in a house and did not heat it.

I have heard goldfish referred to as being kept in a cold water tank...just not heated.

Their ideal temp would require a chiller in a house.
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby BC in SK » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:24 pm

johnnymax wrote:Both types are full blooded Mozambique Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus)

Probably not. IMO, unlikely.
Gold/albino/leucistic mozambique have been around for a long time (maybe 50 years or longer?). I've had at least 2 distinct types. Purchased my first of these (what I would describe as the flourescent orange kind; very pretty) around 1977. I think these were predominantly Mozambique, but probably not pure. At least they had the right body shape and breeding males developed the bright white gill plate. Other kind(s) I've had, I couldn't even say that about them, though I think they were predominantly Mozambique.
It's been well known and common knowledge in the aquarium hobby that these kinds of Mozambique from the aquaculture trade are hybrid. They were developed primarily because they have a different color of flesh and are marketed as "seafood". Likely they would have been crossed with Oreochromis niloticus because of it's superior growth rate or sometimes even with O. aureus because it's more cold water tolerant. Of course there are many others in the genus that they can be crossed with, though some of the crosses produce predominantly male because they are more distantly related. And one of the reasons O. mozambique is used in some crosses is because they are more salt water tolerant then most of the other Oreochromis species.
IMO, just based on your picture, the fish is suspect hybrid because of it's body shape, smaller mouth, and if it's a breeding male should have a bright white gill plate as that trait shouldn't be absent because of a lack of pigment. Older males should develop a huge mouth ( especially in comparison to O. niloticus) that eventually can become duck-billed shape.
So in all likelihood, the most you could say about these kinds are they probably mostly O. mozambique.
Crossed regular with gold/albino types. Seems to me it was a recessive gene (just like pink and regular cons). Don't recall too much about it, as I only bred them for a few generations. But the gold/albino does show up again as it is a recessive gene but I think is unlikely to mix.
As far as line breeding for a particular trait, it can be done for just about any trait. But it's going to take dozens and dozens of tanks to grow them out, and probably many decades to actually accomplish anything. Cold water tolerance is definitely a trait that has been looked at by researchers in Tilapia aquaculture but not something that really makes sense for the average aquarist. O. mozambique is from southern Africa, so it is one of the least cold water tolerant. Just makes more sense crossing O. aureus for a more cold water tolerant fish and focusing on that species to line breed for this trait
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Re: Albino & regular Tilapia Cichlids Ordered

Postby johnnymax » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:33 pm

BC in SK wrote:
johnnymax wrote:Both types are full blooded Mozambique Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus)

Probably not. IMO, unlikely.
Gold/albino/leucistic mozambique have been around for a long time (maybe 50 years or longer?). I've had at least 2 distinct types. Purchased my first of these (what I would describe as the flourescent orange kind; very pretty) around 1977. I think these were predominantly Mozambique, but probably not pure. At least they had the right body shape and breeding males developed the bright white gill plate. Other kind(s) I've had, I couldn't even say that about them, though I think they were predominantly Mozambique.
It's been well known and common knowledge in the aquarium hobby that these kinds of Mozambique from the aquaculture trade are hybrid. They were developed primarily because they have a different color of flesh and are marketed as "seafood". Likely they would have been crossed with Oreochromis niloticus because of it's superior growth rate or sometimes even with O. aureus because it's more cold water tolerant. Of course there are many others in the genus that they can be crossed with, though some of the crosses produce predominantly male because they are more distantly related. And one of the reasons O. mozambique is used in some crosses is because they are more salt water tolerant then most of the other Oreochromis species.
IMO, just based on your picture, the fish is suspect hybrid because of it's body shape, smaller mouth, and if it's a breeding male should have a bright white gill plate as that trait shouldn't be absent because of a lack of pigment. Older males should develop a huge mouth ( especially in comparison to O. niloticus) that eventually can become duck-billed shape.
So in all likelihood, the most you could say about these kinds are they probably mostly O. mozambique.
Crossed regular with gold/albino types. Seems to me it was a recessive gene (just like pink and regular cons). Don't recall too much about it, as I only bred them for a few generations. But the gold/albino does show up again as it is a recessive gene but I think is unlikely to mix.
As far as line breeding for a particular trait, it can be done for just about any trait. But it's going to take dozens and dozens of tanks to grow them out, and probably many decades to actually accomplish anything. Cold water tolerance is definitely a trait that has been looked at by researchers in Tilapia aquaculture but not something that really makes sense for the average aquarist. O. mozambique is from southern Africa, so it is one of the least cold water tolerant. Just makes more sense crossing O. aureus for a more cold water tolerant fish and focusing on that species to line breed for this trait


Thanks for the long post. Very informative. I don't think I have too may decades left, but you never know.
I think the reason Texas allows Mozambique Tilapia only in farm ponds, is because of what you said that they are the least cold tolerant.
Thanks for telling me that. It all makes sense now. Well, some if it, kinda makes a little sense... :-?
I am still VERY EXCITED and can't wait for my fish to arrive! :dancing:
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