General African Cichlid Discussion • What should I do with my hybrids

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Postby thevein » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:00 pm

my girlfriend told me size didn't matter :lol:
90 gal Frontosa, Cobue afra, L. caruelus
55 gal Deep water hap, hap azureus
20 gal Grow out
29 gal Ps. Saulosi
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Postby Number6 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:02 pm

Kilpo wrote:Actually the main point I was bringing out with my first post is that I think it is just silly to put down fish because they are hybrids.
I would say it's silly to put them down JUST because they are hybrids... but I will put them down because they are a problem that can only be solved by death or sterilization just like deformed fish, off colored fish, etc. I only sell grade A fish (or try hard to... )

Kilpo wrote:Do you know this on any fish you buy?
Yes I do... when I buy pure species that I can trace right back to the lake from breeder to breeder, then I know exactly what to expect (within a range of normal of course).

Kilpo wrote:Most of all, is every pure Electric Yellow's temperament the same...NO, it's NOT! Does that mean you should kill the ones you don't like?
if ANY trait is not within the norms of that species, then yes... you do not use that fish for breeding. Regardless of purity, impurity, etc.
My WC cichlids are gonna be caught on rod n reel!
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Postby thevein » Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:18 pm

aulonacara dragonsblood ring a bell for anyone? good old fashion hybrid taking the hobby by storm
90 gal Frontosa, Cobue afra, L. caruelus
55 gal Deep water hap, hap azureus
20 gal Grow out
29 gal Ps. Saulosi
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thevein
 
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Location: Tampa, Florida

Postby Kilpo » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:47 pm

Just like lorebitzer stated that she had a tank of hybrids, some people may like the look of some of them...buy WC if you want pure and it's THAT important to you. Sorry if people like myself and others who won't destroy a fish because it's a hybrid according to you ruin the hobby and "all your hard work"! That's almost too funny to type.

I guess, like stated before, we have to agree to disagree, but to call me ignorant is just ridiculous! You almost come off as thinking your some kind of a dictator on the hobby...your way or the highway!

I choose the hybrid way....lol
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Postby thevein » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:52 pm

:zz:
90 gal Frontosa, Cobue afra, L. caruelus
55 gal Deep water hap, hap azureus
20 gal Grow out
29 gal Ps. Saulosi
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thevein
 
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Location: Tampa, Florida

Postby Number6 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:14 pm

Kilpo wrote:Just like lorebitzer stated that she had a tank of hybrids, some people may like the look of some of them...


Then answer my earlier question... if you can't put them down or use em as fish food, what do you do with the hundreds of fry the hybrids will one day produce? Whether you will admit it or not, eventually cichlids will breed to a number greater than your tank will support... you will either have to put them down or let them get sick from overpopulating the tank...
either way, death happens.

You have an alternative?
My WC cichlids are gonna be caught on rod n reel!
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Postby iceblue » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:27 pm

I'm very interested in reading the answer to Number6s' question. All to often these discussions degenerate without a clear resolve. I personally euthenize the hybrids in my tank to both prevent overpopulation or add to the "mixed cichlids" that are so prevalent in fish stores these days.

I will however add a little levity to the discussion and a human face to the mix.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/scienc ... n_face.htm
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Postby Number6 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:35 pm

iceblue wrote:I'm very interested in reading the answer to Number6s' question. All to often these discussions degenerate without a clear resolve.
This is what I find as well... those who oppose killing seem to do so without offering any alternative save dumping them at a LFS for free to some unknown fate... to me, this is simply passing the buck because it's unpalatable to kill fish...

perhaps it's because I grew up on a farm... but I was always taught that if you helped bring it into this world, you best be ready to help it leave this world. Animals could not be kept forever... it just wasn't possible. Some of that thinking has obviously transferred to my cichlids.
My WC cichlids are gonna be caught on rod n reel!
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Postby acrosstic » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:53 pm

I never suggested I keep thousands of hybrid tanks, but rather it isn't the hobbyist at fault it is the breeders and LFS. It is going to HAPPEN anyways. All we can do is make sure those bad breeders don't get hybrids, BUT if a hobbyist wants to keep hybrids, or buy them from one of those breeders, so what? There will always be good breeders as well. The system has to support both, because they are both a reality.

There are always going to be the breeders who are responsible and those we are not, ALWAYS.

If I know I have hybrids, making sure they don't make it to those breeders is all I need to do to preserve the species.

If I have a 75 gallon with hybrids...then they have fry, so what. More fry will not survive than the tank can support. Its natural selection. I never suggested saving the fry.

My yellow lab was purchased at my LFS and had VERY MILD aggression, black markings perfect, head shape correct. Very healthy as well. So, I don't know about your experiences.

Hybrids aren't bad for the hobby, PEOPLE are bad for the hobby. Breeders who knowingly breed hybrids. IF PEOPLE are responsible enough to notify other hobbyist that they are hybrids, and they pass that on if they give them up, the breeders should never be able to get those hybrids, and if they did, it is those people who knowingly breed hybrids that are the problem.

How do we know if what we are getting at the LFS is a pure breed? We don't, but I'm trying to figure out how how the hybrid gets from my tank...to the breeder and then the breeder somehow breeds my hybrid mistakenly. MOST hybrids don't look a lot like their parents, and as the hybrids breed they lose even more of their parents colors and characteristics, I honestly am at a loss on how this could happen ACCIDENTALLY. What it is, is breeders doing it intentionally, and if they want to do it, it is still going to happen, regardless of if we kill hybrid fry or not.

Oh and my mix was an ice blue zebra and a yellow lab, I remembered wrong.
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Postby acrosstic » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:01 pm

For those curious here is my most mature hybrid, who looks NOTHING like a ice blue zebra or yellow lab. Pic Quality is poor, daytime shot and my front glass needs cleaning.

Image
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Postby acrosstic » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:06 pm

He has a blue face...can't see it that well... the black markings are not as prominent as his mother of course, and his head shape is closer to his father (ice blue).
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Postby Kilpo » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:25 pm

Number6 did I ever say that you can't put them down or use them for fish food? NO!
You can do whatever the heck YOU want to do with YOUR fish.

In the original post acrosstic asked what he should do with his hybrid fry and both Dave and Joea basically stated that you HAD to and would be best to put them down, I disagree. I think acrosstic can do what HE wants to do with HIS fish. If the fish are taken to a fish store they will be sold to somebody who maybe wants a fish that looks like the hybrids. Believe it or not but not everyone is anal on this subject like some of you guys are. Many people who have fish tanks buy a fish because of the way they look not because they happen to be a species that they have been looking for all their lives.

If you are having a hard time finding a perfect electric yellow because they don't have the exact coloration you want well, maybe they are hybrid so...DON'T BUY THEM!! I would say the only way to tell for sure is to buy WC..not a very hard thing to do!!! Then you can breed away and be very happy with the way you think you are helping the hobby and saving a species from extinction!

I have fed my 14 year old Tilapia Butterkofferi many goldfish as a snack over the years and would have no problem feeding him hybrids or africans for that matter.

I do find it quite interesting that thevein is so interested in seeing his fish act like they would in the wild yet he only has them in at the most a 90 gallon tank...how natural is that to a fish?

acrosstic, if you want to keep the hybrids keep them, or use them as feeders, or kill them or take them to a lfs and let them know they are hybrids. You can do whatever you want to do with them don't just listen to these holier than thou posters who say you have to put them down.
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Postby Number6 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:29 pm

Kilpo wrote:acrosstic, if you want to keep the hybrids keep them, or use them as feeders, or kill them or take them to a lfs and let them know they are hybrids. You can do whatever you want to do with them don't just listen to these holier than thou posters who say you have to put them down.
Well, at least we are down to the heart of your position now...

I'm going to accuse the hybrid dumpers as the "holier than thou"'s thank you. Dumpers don't seem to give a hoot if you deny me my enjoyment in this hobby and make me pay a ton extra for fish of known lineage instead of getting to go see tanks upon tanks of cool fish and knowing what I am about to buy. What the dumpers feel is what they want matters more than what others want.

Thanks, but to me, that is the ultimate holier than thou attitude... ME ME ME.

The DUMPERS don't want to squirm at having to deal with killing baby fish, which means I cannot get what I want... it's my wants vs a dumper's want.

So yes... I admit that asking someone to put their mutt fry down is putting our want over a dumper's wants.... SO? Why is a dumper's want more important than mine? Why on earth can't I post my want?

I'm pretty sure I can.
:dancing:
My WC cichlids are gonna be caught on rod n reel!
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Postby thevein » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:31 pm

i'm surrounded by idiots :popcorn: this is too funny
90 gal Frontosa, Cobue afra, L. caruelus
55 gal Deep water hap, hap azureus
20 gal Grow out
29 gal Ps. Saulosi
User avatar
thevein
 
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

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