General African Cichlid Discussion • What should I do with my hybrids

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What should I do with my hybrids

Postby acrosstic » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:19 am

So when I first started, I was inexperienced and I had a Elec Yellow and a Electric Blue breed. Then I had a bunch of rather cool looking hybrids. I think I saved a total of 4 that made it to maturity even though I started with like 17 fry. Parents Died when I was away at college.

Then I had the two dang hybrids breed and produce what is currently like 7 fry at various stages of growth. They are populating my tank for me.

Now I have a tank full of hybrids, not at all bad looking (even though the new fry could be) and they aren't overly aggressive either.

I don't really want to keep them as I am going to either do my new tank in male female pairs or I am going to do a peacock show tank.

I really like the challenge of keeping a mixed tank of peacocks and Mbuna, although I haven't had much success with Haps, I want to try again when I do to a 125. to see if the greater space as well as the better setup will help. The Mbuna should gravitate towards the rocky the PEacocks and Haps should be peaceful in the open water areas I am planning.

I have three awesome Syndotis Catfish and a lame pleco which I don't want either.

The biggest question is what to do with the hybrids. I don't want to give them to a pet store (Bad for hte hobby) and I could give them away free I suppose, but not many people want hybrid cichlids.
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Postby Joea » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:42 am

If you give them away, they'll end up out on the market or their fry will. If you don't want these fish, it's best to just euthanize them. Depending on their size, there are various methods to doing this. Some are a bit more violent than others.

If they're small, you could take them to an LFS that would be willing to throw them into a tank of large predators, they won't last long.

Freezing, clove oil or quick decapitation are some of the more common methods.
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Postby Dave » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:54 am

If you find it distasteful to put the fish down, you can always ask a fellow hobbyist. I have put fish down for friends in the hobby, and there is likely someone in your area that would help.

I really appreciate that you have asked for help rather than just dumping them on the hobby.


To everyone in general, this is why I am opposed to hybrids. Life happens, things change, and suddenly you no longer have room for your hybrids. Putting fish down as fry is much easier to do than when they grow up.
Come join us at the Madison Area Aquatic Hobbyists (MAAH) meeting. http://madisonaquatichobby.com/
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Postby Kilpo » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:19 pm

I love this web site, but this is the one issue that I think many people are ridiculous about. If it's a healthy nice looking fish, give them away if you don't want them. To kill them is just silly.

"Dump them into the hobby"? They are fish...give me a break!!

Maybe we should euthanize all puppies that are mutts, they aren't natural...
or even worse what about people who have kids that aren't any particular race, should we euthanize them?

Come on people!
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Postby jhunbj » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:31 pm

Kilpo wrote:I love this web site, but this is the one issue that I think many people are ridiculous about. If it's a healthy nice looking fish, give them away if you don't want them. To kill them is just silly.

"Dump them into the hobby"? They are fish...give me a break!!

Maybe we should euthanize all puppies that are mutts, they aren't natural...
or even worse what about people who have kids that aren't any particular race, should we euthanize them?

Come on people!


Oh oh :o :o :o ..... :lol:
90G: C.Salvini,M.Estherae,Ps. Polit,1M Ps. E.Chailosi, Cyno.Afra Jalo Reef & White Top, Ps. Longior, M. Maingano, Hap. sp 44 and 5 Syno.Pet
75G: 15 Ps.Demasoni, 13YL, 12 M.Cyaneorhabdos & 6 Syno.Pet
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Postby Number6 » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:52 pm

Kilpo wrote:I love this web site, but this is the one issue that I think many people are ridiculous about. If it's a healthy nice looking fish, give them away if you don't want them. To kill them is just silly.

"Dump them into the hobby"? They are fish...give me a break!!

Maybe we should euthanize all puppies that are mutts, they aren't natural...
or even worse what about people who have kids that aren't any particular race, should we euthanize them?

Come on people!
I would suggest you do a search and read up on all the rebuttals to your arguments... this discussion is an old one. No need for repeats unless there's a new point to go over.
My WC cichlids are gonna be caught on rod n reel!
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Postby boostspike » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:39 pm

Mods, lock this baby up.. i feel another debate brewing.. :D :D :D
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Postby Joea » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:01 am

Kilpo wrote:I love this web site, but this is the one issue that I think many people are ridiculous about. If it's a healthy nice looking fish, give them away if you don't want them. To kill them is just silly.

"Dump them into the hobby"? They are fish...give me a break!!

Maybe we should euthanize all puppies that are mutts, they aren't natural...
or even worse what about people who have kids that aren't any particular race, should we euthanize them?

Come on people!


:roll:

Number6 wrote: I would suggest you do a search and read up on all the rebuttals to your arguments... this discussion is an old one. No need for repeats unless there's a new point to go over.


I couldn't agree more.
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Postby acrosstic » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:12 am

My hybrids are nice looking and healthy, so I could keep them myself and monitor for aggressive behavior.

I don't think giving them to a fellow hobbyist would mean they would show up on the market, in fact, some people are casual hobbyists and just want something to look at in their tanks. Cheap and free fish are great for them and they don't usually care enough to ever sell their fish to a LFS or breed them for distribution. Most of these tanks are all mutt tanks anyways, so no risk to the hobby.

I agree on the reasons not to breed for hybrids or giving them to a LFS under some other breed.

However, I do think putting down a fish is a bit extreme, unless they are killing other fish. I'll just keep them, monitor them, and when I move to my 125 the Haps will hunt the fry anyways, so no new fry that I don't want will survive or at least very few.

Killing fish is a bit extreme. Letting the fry get eaten is natural (You don't have to save them). However, I have several larger fish now, one that is 4.5" and my larger fish don't bother the dang fry, they are swimming along side my 7" BumbleBee. When I add Haps, they will learn quick...

Anyhow, accidentally killing fish is easier than what you make it out to be. I had one jump out of a bucket, whoops. I had one jump out of the tank (he squeezed out next to the HOB filters, found him behind the tank.

I had an elec yellow swim into a filter bag, couldn't escape, died, then I had a pleco go in there to eat the remains, trapped and died as well. (That one was very strange)

I've had smaller fish get sucked onto the filter intake and can't shake free and die, some get crushed by falling rocks, etc.

There are about 101 ways a cichlid could die that isn't you killing them.

I did have to kill one cichlid, because he murdered ever other fish he came into contact with, but that was extreme case.

The easiest way to do it, is just deprive them of water. It happens to fish all the time, when I go fishing the fish die because they drown in air. So it is really not so sad to me for that to be the method.

I've heard Cichlids are quite tasty, anyone every eat them? Lol.
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Postby conor » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:30 am

"The easiest way to do it, is just deprive them of water. It happens to fish all the time, when I go fishing the fish die because they drown in air. So it is really not so sad to me for that to be the method."

Hmm. It might be easy, but it seems to be one of the crueller methods to me.
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Postby Joea » Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:08 am

acrosstic wrote:I don't think giving them to a fellow hobbyist would mean they would show up on the market


It's impossible for anyone to make this claim and it's naive for anyone to believe it. Fish can breed into the the hundreds and thousands over a lifetime and their offspring can do the same. Once you give even one away to a fellow hobbyist, you cannot guarantee that any offspring produced won't end up on the market.
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Postby Kilpo » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:20 pm

The dog comparison is a good one, please tell me why it isn't?

Some say you need to keep it natural and make sure you don't mix species well, having fish in a fish tank isn't natural by itself. The fish in a tank are not going to act as they would in the wild. Fish in a fish tank are there for the owners enjoyment in watching them, not for scientific research on their natural behavior. Who cares if these fish show up on the market....They are fish in a fish tank for Pete's sake!!!!!

For me, I say who the heck cares if these fish are at pet stores. Do you really think these hybrids from the fish tank are somehow going to make it to Lake Tanganyika or Lake Malawi? I would love to somehow breed my Calvus with my Blue Dolphin, that could be some cool looking offspring. Heck, then I could fly to Tanzania, release them into the lake and create my own species. What do you think of the name Cyrtocara Altolamprologus Calvhap Kilpo black?

I guess we would have to agree to disagree!
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Postby F8LBITEva » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:16 pm

OP post pics of your hybrids you got me curious
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Postby Number6 » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:23 pm

Kilpo wrote:The dog comparison is a good one, please tell me why it isn't?


Assuming you did the search, read through the many many discussions, if you still have this question, then I'll explain it one more time...

Comparing breed crosses in dogs to breed crosses fish would be fair... if one makes a labradoodle then it's still a full dog and the only people who will be miffed are the ones who buy a labradoodle x poodle x poodle puppy expecting a poodle only to have non poodle like traits.

Comparing a breed level cross to a wild variant, sub species, species or genus level crosses isn't right because the effects are completely different. When you mix fish that are MORE different than the parents at a breed level are, then the problems tend to be bigger problems...

Kilpo wrote:The fish in a tank are not going to act as they would in the wild. Fish in a fish tank are there for the owners enjoyment in watching them, not for scientific research on their natural behavior. Who cares if these fish show up on the market....They are fish in a fish tank for Pete's sake!!!!!


I've spent a ton of money on fish JUST for the behaviors... why is my (and many others) value we place on behavior not important? It is... and I'm sure you aren't suggesting that they aren't.

MOST behaviors in cichlids do seem to be viewable in large enough aquariums... so there is alot to be said for keeping fish that will look like, act like and be like the fish that we see in books and videos of the lakes we one day want to visit.

I agree with you that anti-hybrid attitudes can be a bit overboard... e.g. lumping all hybrids in to one single category while thinking line bred oddities are just peachy is one example... but to swing the opposite direction and say that there is NO problem with hybrids is just as ill-thought out.

There are problems... the only debate should be about how significant those problems are.
My WC cichlids are gonna be caught on rod n reel!
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