South American Cichlids • Anyone tried 1 male to multiple female green terror?

Discussion regarding only South American Cichlid species. (Oscars, Geophagines, Discus, Apistogramma, Green Terrors, Angels, Severums, Pikes, etc.)

Moderators: notho2000, Iggy Newcastle

Anyone tried 1 male to multiple female green terror?

Postby toffee » Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:44 am

Are green terrors monogamy? Can one male handle multiple female in the same tank? Just curious.
toffee
 
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:47 pm
Location: Mountain View, CA

Share On:

Share on Facebook Facebook Share on Twitter Twitter

Re: Anyone tried 1 male to multiple female green terror?

Postby Auballagh » Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:33 am

Won't work. When a pair forms up, the male and female pair will attempt to drive off all non-paired Green Terrors (or other Cichlids) from their claimed spawning territory. That territory (unless they are kept in an indoor pond or something....), is usually larger in bottom size, than the confines of an aquarium.
Non-Paired Green Terrors with no room to escape from the spawning pair in the aquarium, will be killed. :(
Find What You Love And Let It kill You!
What matters most is how well you walk through the fire...
- Charles Bukowski -
User avatar
Auballagh
 
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:05 pm
Location: Virginia Beach, VA. US of A

Re: Anyone tried 1 male to multiple female green terror?

Postby toffee » Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:08 pm

Auballagh wrote:Won't work. When a pair forms up, the male and female pair will attempt to drive off all non-paired Green Terrors (or other Cichlids) from their claimed spawning territory. That territory (unless they are kept in an indoor pond or something....), is usually larger in bottom size, than the confines of an aquarium.
Non-Paired Green Terrors with no room to escape from the spawning pair in the aquarium, will be killed. :(


sounded like male GTs aren't the player type that date a few female simultaneously.
toffee
 
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:47 pm
Location: Mountain View, CA

Re: Anyone tried 1 male to multiple female green terror?

Postby Auballagh » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:34 pm

Hah! That's awesome.... :lol:
-
And no. With Green Terror's I can say: "Not exactly". When spawning, yes the male is committed to that spawning site and working as a team with the female to protect the eggs and fry from some pretty intense levels of predation. However.... once the babies grow out and start dispersing, the male will probably wind up chasing the female out of his territory. A new female, with yet another new spawning cycle, could then possibly happen again. In the aquarium when this happens, it's best to protect the female from male aggression by using a partial tank divider or something so she can escape to safety if he gets too rough.
-
Not to say that in New World Cichlids, there aren't some Real Players out there! The mouth brooding Geophagines are one such type, with the dominant male spawning with multiple females in a 'harem' group. Apistogramma cichlids are yet another type that do best when kept in Harem groups. And, depending on how aggressive the male is in the Harem-keeping species, will drive how many females it takes to safely spread out the aggression in his group (1 Male to 4 Female Harem groups are fairly common).
Find What You Love And Let It kill You!
What matters most is how well you walk through the fire...
- Charles Bukowski -
User avatar
Auballagh
 
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:05 pm
Location: Virginia Beach, VA. US of A

Re: Anyone tried 1 male to multiple female green terror?

Postby sir_keith » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:42 pm

Auballagh wrote: ...Not to say that in New World Cichlids, there aren't some Real Players out there! The mouth brooding Geophagines are one such type, with the dominant male spawning with multiple females in a 'harem' group...


In species with a lek mating system, both males and females are polygamous. One such group is the tribe Ectodini from Lake Tanganyika, a diverse group of mouthbrooders that includes Ophthalmotilapia, Cyanthopharynx, Callochromis, Xenotilapia, and several other genera. Males of these species build large crater-like nests in the sand floor, each nest immediately adjacent to another, such that large areas of the sand floor are virtually confluent with breeding sites. A male will attempt to attract a female to his nest, and if successful, breeding will ensue in the usual manner- eggs being deposited, fertilized, and taken into the female's mouth. However, before the female has released all of her eggs, she usually leaves the nest, and goes in search of another male, and then the whole process is repeated. In this way females of these species carry multi-paternal broods, which increases the genetic diversity of their progeny. You need a very large tank to see these behaviours in captivity.

A co-dominant male in my colony of wild-caught Ophthalmotilapia nasuta Kipili Gold-

IMGP6613R5.jpg


And a brooding female-

IMGP7090R1.jpg
User avatar
sir_keith
 
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:57 pm
Location: Liberty Bay, WA

Re: Anyone tried 1 male to multiple female green terror?

Postby BC in SK » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:50 pm

Auballagh wrote:Not to say that in New World Cichlids, there aren't some Real Players out there! The mouth brooding Geophagines are one such type, with the dominant male spawning with multiple females in a 'harem' group. Apistogramma cichlids are yet another type that do best when kept in Harem groups.

Harem breeding is not at all peculiar to just these new world cichlids. Pretty much any substrate spawner can be polygamous. As far as green terror, yes there are numerous examples on the internet of people keeping a male with 2 or more females and having the male breed with all the females over a span of time. But usually you need big tanks and a lot more then just 3 or 4 cichlids in the tank for them to coexist.
I've had Convict males breed with 2 females at the very same time on at least three occasions. Females are in separate territories with the male dividing his time. In terms of the male's time allocation, courting another female can actually take priority over defending eggs, though fry protection definitely takes priority over either. I've had male convicts pair up with 3 females at the very same time.....though the last time this happened the male was of mellow temperament and did not keep the females away from each other. The 3 females fought and he ended up breeding with just the victor. When i kept only convicts in my 180 gal. for a number of years i had usually about 4 males (sometimes more) and any where from about 6-15 females. I had 2 females that had bred with all 4 males, and all had at least mated with more then one partner. Under these sex ratios, single females will often try to court any male they can get. Males appear to me to be a little fussier in choosing mates though that may just be a reflection of the skewed sex ratios. When i had 2 pairs of convicts in my 180 cichlid community tank, eventually after a span of over 2 years they swapped partners (and all 4 convicts had had different partners in an earlier period of time). In a span of over 40 years....I've never owned a convict that didn't have more then one partner in it's life time. Serial monogamy at best. Give them a little space and some choice of partners and they definitely won't stick to the same partner over time.
I generally kept salvini in a harem situation. One male to 2-4 females. Given more then one female in the tank, the male will almost always switch partners every succeeding spawn.
When I had 5 jewels (2 males, 3 females) in my 75 gal. I had every possible pairing combination as well as 2 different trios. That's right, one male paired up with 2 females with all 3 fish acting as a breeding team. Videos of it in this thread:https://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=404042 (the better quality video of trio protecting fry, on my last post on the bottom of pg.1).
I really don't think apistos are all that much more inclined to be polygamous then many other substrate spawners. IMO, their much smaller space requirements coupled with a much greater tolerance for each other in a small glass box, makes them better suited to be kept this way by aqaurists.
As far as observation in the wild of substrtate spawning cichlids being polygamous with males breeding with more then one female at the very same time, there has been some observation of convicts, kribs and Texas cichlid amongst others. Though I think it is not as common as a pair since the males have to be very dominant and own larger territories.
BC in SK
 
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:06 pm
Location: canada


Return to South American Cichlids

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests