South American Cichlids • 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

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50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby ChtiKlim » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:14 pm

Hi everyone, new to the site, just wanted to share my ideas on how I would ... probably.. maybe stock my 50G tank. Expertise from community is always a great thing.

Ok tank is 47Lx16Dx18H - Aquatlantis Style LED 120 Brand. Site says real capacity is 174l so 46GUS
Filter Eheim 2217 Classic.
Planted (tho need to grow) - 2 driftwoods - gravel on each opposite sides (planted), sand in the middle (no plants) - some floating plants (also need to grow ;) )

Water param: PH btw 6-6.5 - Temp: 75-77 (24-25C) - KH: 71.6ppm GH:161.1ppm - Cycled - seems stable so far nothing to mentionned. 25-30% water change per week even if not really needed due to current low population and nitrate level would let me do that only once per 2 week actually. But well looks like fishes enjoy that :P

Had to pause with my tank because of other things going on during this period but now it's time to take care of it ;)
Started with Pearl Gourami in mind but well confusing to read all comments, experiences etc.. so still mixing things in my head.
Tho have this stock idea. Any comment, remark is great.

In tank right now:
- 6 Red Phantom Tetras.
- 6 Rasbora Harlequins Purple (waiting them to be ok, no stress, aclimated so I have time)

Idea next is someting like:
Mid-Bottom:
- 5 Cory Bandits
- 1 Bolivian Ram (M) (I m afraid of having a pair ... 2 fishes having 3 to 3.5in becoming agressive because of babies ... my tank will quickly be a mess .. dont have another tank to relocate fishes so idk)
- 2 Apisto Borellii (1M/1F should I go with 2F?)

Top:
- 1 Pearl Gourami (M) (struggling to go with 1 Pearl or a pair ; or 4 Honey ? idk... 2 Pearl appears to me as too much when adult size... idk too conservative maybe)

If it could make sense then:
- 6 Golden Pencilfishes to occupy more space on top

AqAdiv is like 63% (above stock including pencils)... I know it looks like not so much but I m always viewing that as all adults... and in case of fights, etc... I have no other tank to relocate things, and love to see them acting more freely than packed (as long as I can consider this as "freely" in an aquarium space ;) I know I know ;).

Anyway whatever I introduce will be step by step... aclimated and then "who's next to consider", "does it still make sense" etc etc ;) safe safe safe haha
Won't add anyway more than one male per species, and free space option to add some Oto Vittatus (6), only in case of algae issue.

Rainbows.. too big having 6 in that tank in y opinion (always having adult size in head that's why, won't fit).
Won't go with colisa laila, Honey are ok more peacefull, Pearl ok but yes questionning of pair or not (due to adult size)
Bolivian probably ok in pair, but Aqdvisor looks to warm me about Bolivian too aggresive with Rasbo and Phantoms ! (if starts to breed) that's why.. only 1 poor lonely guy ;)
GBR won't fit with my water params, so no. Anyway bolivian are cute.

And yes more could be ok as long as juveniles !

I'm new, sorry if this topic is in the wrong categeory
ChtiKlim
 
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:53 pm
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby Auballagh » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:51 pm

Wow, there's a lot going on in your post!
So, let's see if we can unpack this thing for you and bring up some of your good ideas.
- Driftwood: I see you have those as 'planted'. With what? Typically driftwood (bogwood) is planted out with non-substrate growing Java Fern, Java Moss or some variant of Anubias. Or, sometimes all of those!
- I like your PH. Is this what comes naturally out of the tap?
- And yes, most Rainbowfish will get a bit too large for this aquarium. The Red Phantom Tetras and Purple Harlequin Rasboras you have in there now, should get that job done just fine.
- The pencil fish should work out great on the surface.
- I would just go with the single Pearl Gourami. If you wind up with an overly dominant male, you'll need three or four more Pearl Gourami's to spread out the aggression, . Just getting one will prevent that from happening.
- The Otocinclus catfish is something I have mixed results with. Great algae eaters! But for me, they always just sort of eventually ate themselves out of a job. I just couldn't keep them going, even in a 150 gallon tank. I would recommend you stock with a single Ancistrus catfish. In a 50 gallon tank one should stay pretty busy , but shouldn't be able to work himself out of a job. You may have to offer a part of an algae tab in there for him occasionally, but they are typically pretty low-maintenance.
- Definitely go with THREE female Apistos. Your male will stay colored up beautifully for you. And, with three females in there with him, no one should get singled out and bullied if he turns out to be a little thug.
-
Otherwise, your ideas sound good to me. This should be a pretty and green, very peaceful aquarium. :)
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby ChtiKlim » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:04 pm

Cool thanks a lot for your points ! haha a peacefull green aquarium :P
Yeah same minding about my shooling fishes. Initially I though having like 10 or 12 but it appears that both Phantoms and Harlequins are schoolling together ! So I have already a school of 12 haha !
My PH directly from tap is like 6.5 yeap (approx checking the color from test ok). due to probably driftwood, substrate it's slightly lower in my tank then.
Plants yes , easy ones, java fern, java moss, ludwidgia, anubias
I think going with one pearl to start is better ok worst case if the guy needs females in his life I will see ;)
I will probably eventually introduce 1 bolivian after apisto just to check how all this is going before doing it. (but I love this fish tho)
thx for this info about oto
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby ChtiKlim » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:12 am

Questionning myself ...

Currently in my tank:
6 red Phantom Tetras
6 Harlequin Rasbo
6 Cory Julii

All fine, nothing special about Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates so far, fishes look having fun , eating all I give etc

So now have this ritual step of having brown diatoms , not so much but some on rocks and a bit on plants ... normal stage I think for a tank maturity evolution.
As everyone at that stage I look at my tank everyday and think... that's so ugly :P
Should be replaced soon by green algeas ... another painful stage :P but temptation is high to put some Oto Catfish in the tank ...
Have to resist I think cause adding Otos means adding at least 6 ottos...
That would leave me to have :
6 red Phantom Tetras
6 Harlequin Rasbo
6 Cory Julii
6 Otos

50G ... already 4 spiecies and no center piece yet... "just" a school (they school together) and a cleaning crew!
Having in mind I would love to have at the end:
+ 2-3 Apistos
+ 2-3 Honey Gourami Or 1 Pearl (but hate having just 1 guy alone in a tank... pooor guy).

Should I just wait a bit and resist in introducing Otos ? (they will have algaes now but after a while I will just have to maintain feeding them specifically as there will be nothing to eat anymore... note that I have a UV thing to put in place too, there but not yet plugged).

Don't want to multiply spieces too much ...
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby Auballagh » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:28 pm

I think you should put the Oto cats in there. Like you said, that algae isn't gonna wait. So, go ahead - put 'em to work! Keep in mind though, that you may have to feed those industrious little guys once they really get going. They definitely do an awesome job of cleaning up algae. :)
- Your 'harem' of Apistos will not form pair bonds. To keep your females from getting harassed too much by the male and stressed, I'm still recommending you get three females for this group to more safely spread out potential aggression. That is four Apistos.
- I still like the idea of keeping just one Pearl Gourami. If anything, a lone male will probably appreciate no competition near the aquarium surface with other Pearl Gouramis. (Pearls don't always get along very good with other...) But, a group of 2 to 3 smaller-growing Honey Gouramis, would also look very nice instead of the single Pearl Gourami.
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby ChtiKlim » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:09 pm

Thx again for your comments
Ok yep , otos catfish are very small ones after all. I guess no max than 1.5in right? (otocinclus affinis).
Maybe a decisive week end if I visit my LFS ;)

Apistos I agree yep, sorry missspelled my last post. agreed on 1M - 2F , best 3F there, yes.
My LFS orders a cool one (yellow-blueish looking) from time to time he showed me on his catalog like, and I think I gonna go for this guy. Can't remember the name but I think it's a Nijsseni (not sure ok)

I love the idea of one pearl yep... Would be elegant on midtop
I though about Honeys just to see some interaction (and sure a cute fish too!).
The thing is Nijsseni, especially female, is yellow (dark yellow), so Pearl add more contrast versus Honey in that case.
Anyway that s a good problem
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby Auballagh » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:41 pm

Oh wow.... the Panda Cichlid, Apisotogramma Nijsseni? :o
Beautiful! But, those are supposedly pretty hard to keep. All the problems they warn you about with this species being picky eaters, super fussy about water quality, etc...
I have successfully kept a harem of supposedly the 'beginner' Apisto species.
That is, the Cockatoo Apisto, Apisotogramma cacatuoides,
-
Image
-
And my own male looked almost exactly like that - All The Time! Whew... he was indeed, quite the little 'Vanity Prince'. I loved those little Cichlids! Cool water, and I never let mine get above 72 degrees... Kept my harem in a heavily planted, 20 gallon 'long' aquarium. I did think seriously at one time about getting some Pandas, but their hard to keep reputation scared me off! :oops:
Have you kept Apistos before?
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- Charles Bukowski -
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby ChtiKlim » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:17 am

Woudl be my 1rst apiso :) had bolivians in the past ;) and before (long time ago) it was a salt tank.

Cockatoo is really hot, even in fish store tanks he already displays well. And available easily from what I saw.

Thnks for inputs about the Nijsseni! Interesting to know that. humm need to confirm with the LFS guy the real name of his fish first..
Well actually all in this speicie are cool.
In my short list (before LFS talked about this supposedly Nijsseni) I had : Borelli opal, Cockatoo, Pandurini, Hongsloi.
At long as sexying male/female is "secured" to validate at store (avoid having a suprise after a couple of months ;) ) , not too fragile to maintain, and size not too much over 3in.
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Location: Quebec Canada

Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby ChtiKlim » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:28 am

hum my water temp is set currently to be like around 75-77 ..
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby Auballagh » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:58 am

Cooler. Cooler! :)
These little Cichlids typically like their water just a notch cooler, to look and color up their best. But I know, the water temp will have to be set as a balance with everyone else in the tank. The Pearl or Honey gouramis can certainly handle a little color water. And, those Barbs you have should be fine as well... Sometimes Tetras can need some higher water temps to look their best, though. And honestly, I'm not really sure what temps your Red Phantoms will prefer in there.
Another species of Apisto you could consider that is supposedly even easier to keep in the aquarium is Apistogramma agassizii.
This is an F1 individual identified as Apistogramma agassizii 'cuipuea'
-
Image
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That spade-shaped tail gives the agassizii ID, and 'cuipuea' probably donates the river or locality it was sourced from. A agassizi have been in the hobby a long time. So long in fact, they have developed some pretty nice line-bred color morphs that would look amazing in an aquarium. A. agassizii might be able to tolerate warmer temps better in the tank, as well. Keeping your awesome and well, expensive ($$$) Apisto's colored up, healthy and ALIVE is always kind of nice, y'know? :)
-
Oh.... and my own male Cockatoo was beautiful to look at, but he definitely emerged as a nasty little thug in the aquarium. The 3 females in his harem pretty much always had split fins, missing scales here and there and other signs of a somewhat harried life. That little terror also had an obnoxious thing about the Cardinal Tetras i originally had stocked in with them. Finally, after he killed off three of the 10 member school in that tank, I had enough of it.... So, pulling the Cardinals out and stocking with 8 much tougher Black Widow Tetras took care of the problem, and he had no interest in bothering that larger, somewhat meaner tetra species... :roll:
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby ChtiKlim » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:49 am

Hey I push my luck in deriving for this stocking, but what do you think about 2 keyhole cichlids instead of 1 single Pearl (+ same idea on 3-4 apisto ok)...

Apisto due to territoriallity tendancy would be best to introduce at the end from what I understand

Haha your schooling fish yep I have the same feeling watching these cute shy little Red Phantom Tetras running in my tank now :P would be perfect guys to bully I think haha depends on male apisto personality I get :P
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby Auballagh » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:08 pm

I would just stock with a single Keyhole Cichlid, Cleithracara maronii. One of thoese would be a really nice 'centerpiece' fish for the aquarium, instead of the Pearl Gourami. I mean yes, a pair of them would work. And yes, they would look pretty cool. But, at 4 to 5 inches in length - those larger growing Cichlids might steal a little bit from the small-sized awesomeness of the 'Apisto Show' in your tank. :?
Find What You Love And Let It kill You!
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- Charles Bukowski -
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby ChtiKlim » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:17 pm

Yep ok 1, advantage is it better fits with a same a-bit-lower temp, but don't know if frequently available in stores tho.
Ok good thx
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby Auballagh » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:48 pm

Yeah, Keyhole Cichlids are pretty adaptable. Water quality w/low measured Nitrates will be the primary concern for both the Keyhole and Apistogramma Cichlids. Keeping that species in a cooler temperature range (low to mid 70s) to ensure the Apistos stay comfortable, shouldn't be a problem for them. :)
Find What You Love And Let It kill You!
What matters most is how well you walk through the fire...
- Charles Bukowski -
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Re: 50g Stock idea - still nearly empty tank - projection

Postby fishybuisness » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:21 pm

hey all, i have kept apistogramma caucatoidies, agassizi, macmasteri and hoping to get some borelli and abacaxis soon. I wouldn't recommend apisto nijisseni or agassizi. Nijisseni are very picky when it comes to pairing maybe go for panduro they probably would work better ( this is all info from apistogramma.com they have more info like this, i highly recommend). Agassizi are typically very aggressive imo, and they do best in harems of more than 1:3, as for temps I keep mine at 75-77 and that works well. not all apistos are cold water species and some can be kept at 78-79
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