South American Cichlids • 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Discussion regarding only South American Cichlid species. (Oscars, Geophagines, Discus, Apistogramma, Green Terrors, Angels, Severums, Pikes, etc.)

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4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby WaWaZat » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:17 pm

Suddenly my, approximately 4 year old, Jurupari is not feeling so well. He suddenly stopped eating and just hides and sits near the bottom. Normally when I lose a Jurupari, it is because of water conditions and they are gasping for air at the top of the tank. The water is fine and there is no sign of disease on the fish. This has been going on for almost a week now. He comes out periodically for a swim, then just goes back to hide and sits at the bottom. Right now, his head is very grey. It's just him, a 12 inch Oscar and 3 plecos in a 120 gal. Any ideas? What is the lifespan of a Jurupari in captivity? I've never had one last this long but again, all the others were victims of high nitrates.
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby Iggy Newcastle » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:44 am

I remember when you had issues before with these guys.

What are the parameters?
Temperature?
Filters clean? Any heavy maint lately?
Aerated well?
Any sign of white, threadlike feces?
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby WaWaZat » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:10 pm

Iggy Newcastle wrote:I remember when you had issues before with these guys.

What are the parameters?
Temperature?
Filters clean? Any heavy maint lately?
Aerated well?
Any sign of white, threadlike feces?


Yes, this is the only one that survived that last incident, 3 years ago. That problem was sparked a water quality issue then. Since, we have learned how to keep water quality up consistently.

About 6 months ago, the 3 Red Head Tapajos I put in the tank 6 months earlier had all died suddenly. Water quality tested ok and my current Jurupari wasn't bothered the slightest bit. That one still remains a mystery.

Again, right now, water quality and aeration is as normal. I keep the temp at 78. I haven't seen any white feces.

Attached is a pic I just shot. You can see how grey his head is. Normally it's a gold as the rest of him. Any ideas?
IMG_8515.jpg
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby Narwhal72 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:02 pm

Well. For one thing, it's not a Satanoperca jurupari. That's a Geophagus steindachneri. And based on the size and lack of a nuchal hump it's probably a female.

The belly looks full and well rounded so intestinal worms are probably not the issue. It may be a little cool for them. They usually like water in the low 80's.

There really isn't any treatment I can suggest at this point but as long as your other water parameters are nominal I would just keep it under observation. Maybe offer some live foods like blackworms to see if that entices a feeding response.

Andy
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby WaWaZat » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:31 pm

Narwhal72 wrote:Well. For one thing, it's not a Satanoperca jurupari. That's a Geophagus steindachneri. And based on the size and lack of a nuchal hump it's probably a female.

The belly looks full and well rounded so intestinal worms are probably not the issue. It may be a little cool for them. They usually like water in the low 80's.

There really isn't any treatment I can suggest at this point but as long as your other water parameters are nominal I would just keep it under observation. Maybe offer some live foods like blackworms to see if that entices a feeding response.

Andy

Thanx for identifying her... I was never quite sure.

I turned the temp up a bit.

Here is a pic I just took. Her stomach seems swollen now. She won't eat the frozen brine shrimp. But I've seen poop hanging from her a couple times, the last few days. A couple days ago it was about 2" long. Any more thoughts?
IMG_8550.jpg
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby Narwhal72 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:31 am

Not really. I would not feed this species frozen brine shrimp. I don't feed that to any of my eartheaters. Too high in protein.

I would treat with metronidazole or Prazipro in case it is a protozoan infection. But it could just be old age.

Andy
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby WaWaZat » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:17 pm

Well she passed last night. It sure did seem like old age.

I'm planning to try to get hold of a few Red Head Tapajos to help clean up after the Oscar. Would these be as good a tank mate for the Oscar as the Steindachneri?
What is the natural diet for these fish? I think I am going to try to feed everyone what they eat in the wild... live if possible... just to be sure that lack of nutrition is never an issue.
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby Narwhal72 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:04 am

I would not put them with the Oscar. Adult Oscars are too aggressive for most Altifrons type geo's. I would go with a more Brasiliensis type. Geo. brasiliensis or G. iporangensis are both attractive and better able to stand up to an aggressive adult oscar.

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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby WaWaZat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:48 pm

My Oscar is more of a puppy than the average Oscar and was raised with Earth Eaters but the Earth Eaters I've had have always been able to hold their own, as far as aggressiveness. So the Red Heads are more peaceful than the average Geo? What is the scientific name for Red Head Tapajos. I can't seem to find it on google. This site seems to be a good one for complete fish needs & behavior. I've found the ones you've suggested but not the Red heads; http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby Narwhal72 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:43 am

Red Head Tapajos are still an undescribed species. Right now their name is Geophagus sp. "Red Head Tapajos"

Red Head Tapajos are smaller than other Altifrons types and fairly peaceful. Their care and feeding is pretty much the same as any other Altifrons type.

Keep in mind that your Oscar now has a defined territory in the aquarium. Adding a new fish is an intruder into that territory and will be dealt with by the Oscar. It's different if its raised with fish together from juveniles. Then the fish have the opportunity to stake out their own territory in the aquarium before they mature.
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby WaWaZat » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:37 pm

Yes, I will divide the tank for a while if I have to in order to acclimate everyone.

What do you know about the mannerisms of these?;
Geophagus pellegrini
Geophagus sp. orange head
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby Narwhal72 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:16 pm

Geophagus pellegrini would have the same behaviour as G. steindachneri that you previously had. They are very similiar.

Geophagus sp. Orange head is the same as Red Head Tapajos. They are most likely going to be described as the same species. Just a minor difference in coloration.
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby WaWaZat » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:32 pm

Is it true that the brasiliensis or iporangensis won't sift the sand like a steindachneri? The big reason for having a steindachneri was to clean up after the sloppy Oscar.
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby Narwhal72 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:52 am

They will dig around and move sand around for fun. But they don't have the same sifting feeding behavior as an Altifrons type or Satanoperca.

Brasiliensis types are more like a Central American cichlid in their behavior.
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Re: 4 Year Old Jurupari Suddenly Not Doing So Well

Postby WaWaZat » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:00 pm

Narwhal72 wrote:Geophagus pellegrini would have the same behaviour as G. steindachneri that you previously had. They are very similiar.

Are they also similar in aggressiveness and can hold their own against other mildly aggressive fish? The Oscar truly is a puppy but if he finds he can bully someone easily, he will. Once he finds a guy isn't an easy target, he will leave them alone. In researching other Geo options, I really like the Pellegrini and would perhaps like to put 3 in as tank mates for the Oscar.

But I think before I put anyone else in the tank, I'd like to re-evaluate my setup and be sure I'm keeping water conditions top notch. I recently discovered the the impeller shaft in my Fluval FX5 was broken. It still pumped but I'm sure not like usual. A freak thing I'm sure but I could use a little help from people with more experience than I with making sure water conditions stay top notch, and even implement some overkill/backup to help prevent the occasional issue that will hurt such sensitive fish as Geos.

Below is a video of my setup in my 110 gal. The pickup for the the FX5 is in the center and the returns on the left side, pointing up to achieve surface agitation. I've shown just how much agitation in the video. Is there something else I should be doing so conditions are pristine for sensitive Geos?
https://youtu.be/RfKp1CachZY
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