South American Cichlids • 125 Geo Stocking

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125 Geo Stocking

Postby Samaron » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:04 am

I am running a 125 with a pair of geophagus surinamensis, a pair of geophagus jurupari and juvenile six redheads, also two plecos and some zebra danios. The redheads have seemingly became more aggressive lately, they are over 3 inches now. Do i have to many fish trying to occupy the same space in the tank. The jurupari and surinamensis have seemed kind of stressed lately where they had seemed very happy for several months, i even had the surinamensis breed early on when i first moved them to the tank. Should i go down to just a pair of redheads or get rid of all of the redheads altogether? suggestions and comments are welcome. I am kinda new to fish keeping.
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby dalto » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:33 pm

I am going to assume you have a 6' 125. If you have a 4' 125 you have too many earth eaters.

We kind of need to figure out what fish you actually have. The fish you were sold as "geophagus jurupari" are probably some type of Satanoperca, could be jurapari but I would love to see some pics. Fish sold as "geophagus surinamensis" could be almost any kind of Geophagus species but are almost never G. suranamensis. Abalios, altifrons, dicrozoster, something else in surinamensis complex, etc It would be great to see some pictures of those as well.

Pretty much all Geos are best kept in groups but people do sometimes keep pairs or solitary individuals in a community tank. The "Red Head Tapajos" is a really interesting fish. They can be totally docile or demand dominance of the tank depending on the situation. I wouldn't lower then number. I would probably either let them rule the tank or remove them altogether. Before making that recommendation though it would be good to understand the length of the tank and what the other earth eaters really are.
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby Samaron » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:25 pm

dalto wrote:I am going to assume you have a 6' 125. If you have a 4' 125 you have too many earth eaters.

We kind of need to figure out what fish you actually have. The fish you were sold as "geophagus jurupari" are probably some type of Satanoperca, could be jurapari but I would love to see some pics. Fish sold as "geophagus surinamensis" could be almost any kind of Geophagus species but are almost never G. suranamensis. Abalios, altifrons, dicrozoster, something else in surinamensis complex, etc It would be great to see some pictures of those as well.

Pretty much all Geos are best kept in groups but people do sometimes keep pairs or solitary individuals in a community tank. The "Red Head Tapajos" is a really interesting fish. They can be totally docile or demand dominance of the tank depending on the situation. I wouldn't lower then number. I would probably either let them rule the tank or remove them altogether. Before making that recommendation though it would be good to understand the length of the tank and what the other earth eaters really are.


It is a 6' tank. I will work on getting some pics up of all of the fish.
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby Samantha102938 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:48 pm

Hey! I'm his Fiance so o I got some pictures of the Geos in the tank our biggest guy used to be in charge but the red heads seem to have taken over and they also seemed to have disrupted the flow of things we had two pairs one of the juraparis and one of another kind we assumed were Suranamis. After a while of the red heads being in the tank the pairs have completely seperated and no one really has a home anymore the redheads over the past month seem to have gotten pretty aggressive they almost killed our ghost knife. But anyways here's some photos of the other Geos in the tank
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby Mr Chromedome » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:12 pm

The Geos appear to be an altifrons population. Small spot on the side and long filaments on the fins are characteristics of this species.

The Satanoperca does look like a true jurupari, no spangling on the face.

Red Heads can get very pushy toward conspecifics. While they are one of the smaller species, they can also be somewhat aggressive.
Happiness may be the door to Heaven, but Pleasure is not the Key. - attributed to Confucius
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby dalto » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:38 am

I am not an expert in those but the dark fish in the back probably is Satanoperca jurupari. There are a bunch of different variations of that fish because they have such a wide distribution.

Those are definitely not G. suranamensis but are they fantastic looking fish. The fact that it was sold as suranamensis, the lack of preopercular markings and the caudal fin markings are all consistent with Geophagus abalios. It is hard to say without a better view of the stress bars. There are also some Altifrons-related species that have similar markings like Geophagus sp. aff. altifrons 'Tapajos'. Maybe someone who knows Geophagus more than me will recognize them offhand.

That out of the way, back to the original problem. A group a Geophagus will establish a hierarchy and some chasing and mild battling is normal. It is possible that the RHTs view the much bigger geos as part of the group. It is also possible that the RHTs are just too rambunctious for the comparatively laid back jurapari and the larger geos.

You could try traditional cichlid aggression taming approaches like changing the decorations or temporarily removing and re-adding the more aggressive fish. Honestly, I don't think those will work with Geos.

Other than separating them, you could try to add more similar sized RHTs in hopes that they would pay more attention to each other instead of the other fish. IMO, that has a 50/50 chance of making things better.....or worse.

If it was me, I would keep an eye on them and if it gets out of hand, separate them. If you do have to separate them, Severum tend to make great tankmates for geos.

EDIT: I wrote this on and off for several hours while I was doing other things and didn't see Mr Chromedomes post until afterwards. I would defer to his ID of the fish.
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby Samaron » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:07 am

Thanks for the input people. I am going to give them some time and see how things go, maybe ramp up feeding a little bit to try and curb some of the aggression.

Do you think i am alright having ten Geo's all in the same tank?
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby mambee » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:01 pm

Here is my $.02.

I have a 150 gallon with 6 large Altifrons which look exactly like your fish. They share the tank with 6 large angelfish, about 50 cories and 5 BNPs.

From the pictures you posted, the tank looks a little cluttered. Geo like to sift the sand, and there doesn't seem to be enough open space for them to exhibit that feeding behavior. I would go with vertical pieces of driftwood and attach some anubias to them to break up lines of sight.
150 Gallon:
Geophagus, Angelfish
90 Gallon:
Bolivian Rams, Rummynoses, Corys, Dwarf Loaches, Neons, Glass Catfish
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby Samaron » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:34 pm

A little better shot
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20170802_203026.jpg
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby Samaron » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:46 pm

What is the difference between Altifrons and Surinamensis? I've tried researching it and can't find much and Google image search is no help....
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby dalto » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:07 pm

Samaron wrote:What is the difference between Altifrons and Surinamensis? I've tried researching it and can't find much and Google image search is no help....


Suranamensis is rarely/never seen in the hobby so any information you do find is probably wrong. Altifrons gets bigger than most of the mid-sized geos, 10-12". Compared to other wild caught Geos, altifrons is one of the more hardy and adaptable species.

Behaviorally, most Geophagus are pretty similar if you exclude the brasiliensis complex and the crassilabris complex which are quite different.
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby Mr Chromedome » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:02 am

The name surinamensis is the oldest name in the Genus, having been described in 1791. During the 1950s and 60s there was a tendency toward "lumping", or putting a lot of very similar fish under one species name. Part of this was that most work was done with preserved specimens, and life characteristics, i.e., color, breeding, diet, were not thought of as valid characters for a description. A lot of old names were synonymized with the oldest name. So at one time, most of the true Geophagus species were actually classified as surinamensis. When large numbers of these beautiful cichlids started to be imported, they were all identified as "Surinamensis", as that was the name most easily applied. However, it became quickly apparent to aquarists that they were not all the same species, and a little further research by the newer ichthyologists found a lot of old names were actually valid and distinct species. Then we went into the current "splitter" phase, where they want to make species out of every newly found population, and the number of species that can only be identified if you know the point of origin has exploded.

However, the average importer/wholesaler still calls them all "Surinamensis", because that's what they've called them for the last 60 years. To get fish that have proper ID, one must go to specialist importers who make a point of having the fish properly identified - which generally adds to the cost of the fish.
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby Samaron » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:43 pm

Mr Chromedome wrote:The name surinamensis is the oldest name in the Genus, having been described in 1791. During the 1950s and 60s there was a tendency toward "lumping", or putting a lot of very similar fish under one species name. Part of this was that most work was done with preserved specimens, and life characteristics, i.e., color, breeding, diet, were not thought of as valid characters for a description. A lot of old names were synonymized with the oldest name. So at one time, most of the true Geophagus species were actually classified as surinamensis. When large numbers of these beautiful cichlids started to be imported, they were all identified as "Surinamensis", as that was the name most easily applied. However, it became quickly apparent to aquarists that they were not all the same species, and a little further research by the newer ichthyologists found a lot of old names were actually valid and distinct species. Then we went into the current "splitter" phase, where they want to make species out of every newly found population, and the number of species that can only be identified if you know the point of origin has exploded.

However, the average importer/wholesaler still calls them all "Surinamensis", because that's what they've called them for the last 60 years. To get fish that have proper ID, one must go to specialist importers who make a point of having the fish properly identified - which generally adds to the cost of the fish.



Thanks for the info!
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Re: 125 Geo Stocking

Postby surfthebay » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:05 pm

It is a beautiful tank and fish.
Sincerely,
Andy Magoulick
Meteorologist from the University of Hawaii
[email protected]
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