General Aquaria Discussion • Seachem Prime to Safe transition

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Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby dledinger » Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:09 pm

Has anyone ever had problems with transition from Prime to Safe? Dosage per the bottle?

I ran into some issues and I'm curious if its a Safe issue, the water company, or if I'm just all screwed up.

I usually dose Prime per the bottle.....5 ml for each 50 gallons but I round up to the nearest 50. So for the 125 I've been doing 3 cap fulls, 2 for a 55, 1 for a 20, and the only time I do less is a 10, which gets half a cap (ish). I've guessed and eyeballed this for years and have not had an issue.

For the first time with Safe I went 1/8 teaspoon for my 125 (normal dose as I understand is a 1/4 tsp for 300 gallons). Well, that wasn't enough. Fish were hurting within 15 minutes, a couple perished, and the rest recovered within just a few minutes after doing Prime. Absolutely painful.

Any idea what I am doing wrong? As a creature of habit I said screw it and ordered a gallon of Prime. Can't have my heart broken again...

As an aside, my wife noted the water tasted "chemically" today. Trying to isolate this.

Thoughts?
125 Gallon Mbuna
60 Gallon Tropheus Duboisi
65 Gallon Amazon
Too many little tanks to count
dledinger
 
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: NC

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Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby Bd79 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:53 pm

I use both Prime and Safe, but never have had a problem with Safe. I'd be inclined to give some credit to your wife (as all husbands should).
Bd79
 
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:14 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby dledinger » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:46 am

I had changed two other tanks a few hours prior with no issues, but I used Prime. Still stumped. Have had no issues with water in many years. Last time I ever had a problem was the first transition to chloramines 7 years ago and my dechlorinator wasn't up to task.
125 Gallon Mbuna
60 Gallon Tropheus Duboisi
65 Gallon Amazon
Too many little tanks to count
dledinger
 
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: NC

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby dledinger » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:22 pm

Did a 50% water change this morning with a double dose of Safe. As the tank neared full the fish were looking inactive on the bottom and breathing heavy and one of my old yellow labs was laying over on its side. I couldn't stomach this going downhill so I quickly dosed Prime and watched them recover within a couple minutes, literally back to spawning before the filters were primed.

The good news is I believe I have figured this out.

After checking the water quality report, I learn that our chloramine ranges from 2-4ppm. I'm guessing with my wife's unprompted comment about the water taste that we may currently be at the high end of that range. Anyway, if you dig deep enough on the Seachem website you can find that the recommended dose is only good for 1ppm of chloramine. In other words, dosing Safe per the label doesn't even get me in the ball park. I really wish they'd indicated this in more detail. This was the hard way to learn...I need a full teaspoon for this tank, not an 1/8th.

Not sure why Prime seems more forgiving. Like I said above I generally round up when I use Prime but I've not ever done 3 or 4 times the recommended dose.

Sooo....I'm thinking my new gallon or Prime will be empty before I am tempted to look at the bottle of Safe again.
125 Gallon Mbuna
60 Gallon Tropheus Duboisi
65 Gallon Amazon
Too many little tanks to count
dledinger
 
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: NC

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby dledinger » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:42 pm

I misstated the above....I need about a 1/2tsp for a 125 instead of the 8th I was using.

Anyway, should anyone stumble upon this post here is the formula from Seachem:

x = 4 * G * c

G=gallons to be treated
c=chloramine in PM

x= quantity of Safe measured in grams, with 1250 being about 1/4 tsp.
125 Gallon Mbuna
60 Gallon Tropheus Duboisi
65 Gallon Amazon
Too many little tanks to count
dledinger
 
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: NC

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby Aquariguns » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:05 am

I typically double dose with safe, on my 125 gallon, i will use 1.5 tsp so there are no issues. I got the gigantic 4kg container of safe from petmountain with coupon for like $80 so this is way more economical than prime. You can really overdose and hurt the fish by putting a bit more in, so i err on side of caution because you never know when there are fluctuations with additives in city treated water.
Aquariguns
 
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby dledinger » Tue May 17, 2016 9:45 am

I know they changed the dosing at some point, but mine states 1/4 tsp for 300 gallons...with no mention of specifics for various levels of ammonia or chloramine. That would amount to .1042 tsp for a 125. In other words, 1.5 tsp would be well beyond a double dose, it would be closer to 14X recommended.
125 Gallon Mbuna
60 Gallon Tropheus Duboisi
65 Gallon Amazon
Too many little tanks to count
dledinger
 
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: NC

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby Aquariguns » Sat May 21, 2016 12:48 pm

Yeah i absolutely overdose! I have been using this for a couple years now with no ill effect. I suppose I could cut back a bit, but I figured what the heck LOL!
Aquariguns
 
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby dledinger » Sun May 22, 2016 4:30 pm

I'm with you. I never change habits that work.
125 Gallon Mbuna
60 Gallon Tropheus Duboisi
65 Gallon Amazon
Too many little tanks to count
dledinger
 
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: NC

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby noddy » Mon May 23, 2016 11:31 am

I dose at 1/4 tsp per 50 gallons (generally). I dose 1/4 tsp in my 40g tanks. 1/2 tsp in my 120g tanks and 1 tsp in my 210g tank.
The lable states 1tsp per 200 gallons of tap water for chlorine, and 1 tsp per 250 gallons of tap water for chloramines.
I always dose for the entire amount of water, not just the new water being added.
noddy
 
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:54 pm
Location: toronto

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby dledinger » Mon May 23, 2016 5:10 pm

noddy wrote:The lable states 1tsp per 200 gallons of tap water for chlorine, and 1 tsp per 250 gallons of tap water for chloramines.


That's the old label, noddy. The new one is 1/4tsp for 300 gallons for both chlorine and chloramines.
125 Gallon Mbuna
60 Gallon Tropheus Duboisi
65 Gallon Amazon
Too many little tanks to count
dledinger
 
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: NC

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby noddy » Tue May 24, 2016 8:03 pm

dledinger wrote:
noddy wrote:The lable states 1tsp per 200 gallons of tap water for chlorine, and 1 tsp per 250 gallons of tap water for chloramines.


That's the old label, noddy. The new one is 1/4tsp for 300 gallons for both chlorine and chloramines.


Wow, that's quite a difference. I guess I don't have to worry about overdosing then ; )
noddy
 
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:54 pm
Location: toronto

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby dledinger » Wed May 25, 2016 12:00 pm

I know...crazy. Honestly, I wish they hadn't changed it. If I used your dosing I doubt I would have had trouble :(
125 Gallon Mbuna
60 Gallon Tropheus Duboisi
65 Gallon Amazon
Too many little tanks to count
dledinger
 
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: NC

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby dledinger » Fri May 27, 2016 9:34 am

Well...After trying several different doses I finally got it to work.

I had to go all the way up to a full teaspoon for a 75% change on a 125. Every dose up to 3/4tsp resulted in fishing laid on the bottom. In every case I bailed out them out with Prime at what seemed like the last minute. 1 tsp worked ok, a couple fish seemed a little stressed, but no obvious problems beyond that. A smidge more would probably be good.

I think I'll just keep that dosing in mind and save the container as a backup in case I run out of Prime.

I really wish Seachem would reconsider the dosing. There's just not enough label information to get it right...and it seems a little unreasonable that I'd need to gave a 10X dose to equal Prime. I jumped in head first after being a long time Prime believer and I surely wish I had not done that.
125 Gallon Mbuna
60 Gallon Tropheus Duboisi
65 Gallon Amazon
Too many little tanks to count
dledinger
 
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:29 pm
Location: NC

Re: Seachem Prime to Safe transition

Postby noddy » Sat May 28, 2016 11:33 am

dledinger wrote:Well...After trying several different doses I finally got it to work.

I had to go all the way up to a full teaspoon for a 75% change on a 125. Every dose up to 3/4tsp resulted in fishing laid on the bottom. In every case I bailed out them out with Prime at what seemed like the last minute. 1 tsp worked ok, a couple fish seemed a little stressed, but no obvious problems beyond that. A smidge more would probably be good.

I think I'll just keep that dosing in mind and save the container as a backup in case I run out of Prime.

I really wish Seachem would reconsider the dosing. There's just not enough label information to get it right...and it seems a little unreasonable that I'd need to gave a 10X dose to equal Prime. I jumped in head first after being a long time Prime believer and I surely wish I had not done that.


That is very odd. I used to dose 1/2 tsp in my 120g tanks that I drained almost to the bottom every weekend. The tanks were full of Tropheus.
Is it possible that you are doing to large a water change for the type of fish that you are keeping?
I know I couldn't do 75% water changes with my Altos for example no matter how much conditioner I added.
noddy
 
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:54 pm
Location: toronto

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