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Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby Kostas G » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:50 am

Can i add Ctenolucius hujeta along with my current stock or will i be risking problems with them or a fish being eaten(when all are adult i mean)? How big a fish will a Ctenolucius try to eat?
Would Chalceus macrolepidotus be a better choice? Or should i not add any fish like these along with the cichlids?

Thank you very much in advance!
Kostas G
 
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

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Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby Kostas G » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:10 am

Apteronotus albifrons remains in the list of contenders as well if it won't be a problem for the smaller species (Cryptoheros nanoluteus, Archocentrus multispinosus, etc). From what i find, most don't cause problems with aggression or bitting.
Kostas G
 
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby Kostas G » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:44 am

I decided to go with 2 Apteronotus albifrons that i think are of different sex judging from their conspecific behaviour at the shop's tank. So far so good with them and the cichlids and they have avoided getting bitten despite their small size and some efforts by the cichlids when i introduced them(the knifefish were detecting them lunging at them and just kept the minimum distance required for the lunge to fail, pretty impressive). After those few initial efforts, they have left them alone though. Thankfully, the aggression/chasing between the knifefish is minimal.

Nic is started to show everyone who's the boss, and has bitten most of the other cichlids but without causing anything more than mucus damage or superficial scale damage. It pulled a scale loose from firemounth's belly and bit Herichthys carpintis right on the head, between the eyes, raising a couple of scales/pulling them loose. The eyes are fine though and the skin does not appear to be anything more than superficially damaged, i think all should heal very fast and fully.
Rainbow has learnt how to stay undamaged and firemouth has learnt how to keep his tail undamaged as well, so damaged fins are rare now. The pleco and Platydoras have learned how to stay undamaged too. I think Herichthys was too sure of himself and thats why it got this surprise bite on the head. Green terror has calmed down a lot too and is gaining nice, impressive colors. The fins are still slowly healing from when i got it, as they had a lot of damage back then.

I am contemplating adding the salvini from my other tank to the big one. Would this be good or increase aggression and cause problems? Salvini has impressive teeth compared to my other cichlids, which mostly lack them and thus a bite doesn't cause much damage. The salvini on the other hand, can tear apart an anubia or vallisneria leaf while ''attacking'' a food stick. Would sure do much damage to any fin it decided to attack, or worse, body damage. It has fitted ok in my other tank and is an interesting fish. I plan to upgrade to a 400l tank at some point in the following years but till then, i probably cannot add any other cichlid or dither in my other tank. If its for the better for the salvini AND the inhabitants of my big tank, i could move it there but would like opinions and experiences on this.


I am still waiting for the chocolate cichlid, Mesonauta, Cryptoheros nanoluteus and Green/Rotkeil Severum, haven't found any of them yet. The Panaque L27 and Baryancistrus L81 will be coming in mid-December and will add them either then or mid-January :)
Any advise on feeding plecos in a cichlid tank would be most appreciated. My Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus is not willing to claim food from the Platydoras nor the cichlids, so he is mostly on what algae grows, wood, plants(unfortunately, but not too much) and fruits/veggies i offer. I am trying offering ground tablets to increase the time food is available for him to scoop, i think its partially working but not well enough. Tablets don't last at all, either a cichlid claims it whole or Platydoras are all over it and the place doesn't go claim it, even though he could if he wanted.

Thank you very much in advance!
Kostas G
 
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby BC in SK » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:25 am

Kostas G wrote:I am contemplating adding the salvini from my other tank to the big one. Would this be good or increase aggression and cause problems? Salvini has impressive teeth compared to my other cichlids, which mostly lack them and thus a bite doesn't cause much damage. The salvini on the other hand, can tear apart an anubia or vallisneria leaf while ''attacking'' a food stick. Would sure do much damage to any fin it decided to attack, or worse, body damage. It has fitted ok in my other tank and is an interesting fish. I plan to upgrade to a 400l tank at some point in the following years but till then, i probably cannot add any other cichlid or dither in my other tank. If its for the better for the salvini AND the inhabitants of my big tank, i could move it there but would like opinions and experiences on this.

There is no way to predict the future with any certainty. Many, many possible outcomes. It's a roll of the dice and IMO, a very good chance that a salvini would end up being the most aggressive fish in your tank. IMO, with your stock list, a large male would almost certainly dominate and become "top dog". Looking at your salvini again, I'm not so sure it has a clear dorsal spot/blotch ....so, not so sure it is a female, as I was initially. I've had salvnis going on 15 years now, and IME male salvini generally don't make good tank mates with other CA over the longer term. Even females can be very aggressive at times, though IME have always been considerably less so then males (females were usually at there most aggressive when paired up with a male). Personally I wouldn't try to house them with a rainbow cichlid.....but how things end up turning out really depends on a lot of variables and particular circumstances. I think it would be much better for the salvini to be in the bigger tank with numerous other cichlid tank mates.......but not so certain it would better for the other cichlid inhabitants.
If you are going to try it, have a back up plan and consider that at some later period of time you may end up having to remove the salvini or a picked on fish.
BC in SK
 
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:06 pm
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Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby Kostas G » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:22 am

With those teeth and a good chance of ending up the most aggressive in the tank, i would say its an unwanted tankmate for my big tank. At least my current cichlids are more or less toothless and a bite doesn't do much more than tear a soft membrane or pull a scale. I am sure salvini can cut a chunk of fin or flesh with a bite, it cuts chunks out of hard Valisneria and Anubia barteri var. barter adult leafs every times it lunges to catch a food piece close to them. The one time it bit me, it did tear the skin a bit.
With what do salvini make good tankmates?

Regarding the rainbow, the small texas is the one that has given it the hardest time. But its learning to avoid the bites. The rest of the fish don't annoy it now. The firemouth is a daredevil in its interactions with the top dogs, Nicaragua and Green Terror, but its slowly getting accepted more and more by them. Its commonly in harm's way though, just lightly thankfully.
The Apteronotus are staying in tip top shape and are messed up with. They don't annoy anyone either. I am amazed by their response time which is faster than the cichlids bite, thus any try is avoided with ease.

Would a shoal of 6 Chalceus macrolepidotus help with aggression issues in my big tank or would they just be ignored like Apteronotus are due to being of a different family? Would they be too much along with the rest of my stocking?
I am still searching for the rest of the planned cichlid inhabitants, hopefully may get some of them in December. I definitely do think that the presence of another species the size of rainbow and the size of firemouth would help with the currently, relatively slight aggression issues, but nothing so far. I would add another rainbow but i am not sure if it will try to hold its own if paired, in which case it would lose quick, and probably end up disfigured. Its currently ignored by the big ones due to being extremely friendly to them
Kostas G
 
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby BC in SK » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:48 am

Kostas G wrote:With those teeth and a good chance of ending up the most aggressive in the tank, i would say its an unwanted tankmate for my big tank. At least my current cichlids are more or less toothless and a bite doesn't do much more than tear a soft membrane or pull a scale. I am sure salvini can cut a chunk of fin or flesh with a bite, it cuts chunks out of hard Valisneria and Anubia barteri var. barter adult leafs every times it lunges to catch a food piece close to them. The one time it bit me, it did tear the skin a bit.
With what do salvini make good tankmates?

Your right about salvini packing a powerful punch for a fish it's size. Paul Loiselle once nicknamed it a "pocket battleship". But having visible teeth that protrude past the lip doesn't really mean too much. It's quite typical of young salvini around the 4" size, especially males, to have two large teeth protruding past the lip. Soon enough they will break them somewhere.......never seen or had a full grown adult processing these teeth. Your other cichlids are anything but toothless; it's just that the teeth do not protrude past the lip, so they are not as visible. If you have ever seen pictures of cichlid skeletons you can see quite clearly that the teeth are still quite large.
Secondly, the size of teeth are fairly much over rated, as weapons for fish. Scale is made of bone. Large teeth against a wall of bone......generally the large teeth are going to loose and break. It's really the bony part of the lip and the force applied, that can do damage.
BC in SK
 
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:06 pm
Location: canada

Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby Kostas G » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:16 am

Haha, pocket battleship indeed when it wants to! And its always alert.
It has many visible teeth, inside its mouth, not just 2. And it crunches the catfish tabs(!) instead of eating them as they slowly dissolve like most cichlids do.
I do have seen cichlid skeletons and do see the teeth in my GT's and Nic's mouth, but they are quite tiny, useful for holding on but not for cutting. I also never feel their teeth when i feed them, they are gentle.
I agree that its the force applied that does the damage and the same cichlid can either do nothing or quite a bit of damage with a bite. Some ''bites'' are just grazes to get the other fish outa there..some other bites are to do damage. To those other bites, scales are not enough protection as they are caught in the mouth and pulled/shredded away. If a small texas that appears toothless(though adults sure are not) can do that with ease to a similar sized or even bigger cichlid, i imagine salvini could pack a much bigger punch with a bite.
Its also the attitude i am afraid. Salvini does occasionally bite the catfish/pleco, though very little. Each bite results in damage.
My other cichlids in the big tank do not bite the catfish, they either push them away or give them priority. Also a bite does not result to damage, especially not to hard fin rays.
Maybe salvini learns the ways of the other cichlids and gets less aggressive due to the low aggression level in the tank, as GT has done? Maybe he also ignores the catfish due to other cichlids being present? Or maybe he wrecks havoc in there.
Your thoughts are much appreciated as you have much much more experience in keeping cichlids and knowing their behaviour than i do and you have helped me a great(huge) deal in making a combination with the cichlids i like, that works!

Btw, I finally found a Severum ''Rotkeil'', so the stocking is going according to the plan. Its a baby, only 3cm, yet its not harassed by anyone. I have also added 4 Trachelyopterus insignis and 2 Megalechis thoracata(these are also 3-4cm), so i am now only waiting for the plecos and the 3 cichlid species we talked about(C. nanoluteus, Chocolate and Mesonauta)
Kostas G
 
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby Kostas G » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:38 am

The plecos and Mesonauta have finally arrived, i am getting them in today.

The fish in the tank are cohabiting well and only minor chases occur now and then. Herrichthys fights with Thorichthys but damage is minimal despite locking mouths often. Some missing scales initially but lately the damages have ceased and its more threat and an occasional mouth locking than anything more. The bigger cichlids often break their fight too.
Boss of the tank is Nicaragua. It claims half to 2/3rds of the tank as times and none disputes it. Its very tolerant though and only rarely starts chasing everyone out.

I am still thinking of moving the salvini to my bigger tank. It still spends its day mostly hiding in my other tank where the only tankmates are catfish, and its a really beautiful cichlid that its a shame to feel insecure just because there are no other fish moving around. I think it has now learnt that fish are not a threat to it like in the tank i got it for, where living well meant remaining the top dog of other aggressive fish. It cohabits ok even with my clown pleco which is a 7-8cm pleco, nothing big. Would it be safe long term to add it in the bigger tank now that some tank mates are of comparable size and nicaragua considerably bigger? Do salvini claim a certain hole/area as hideout or do they swim about like most other cichlids?
My main concern right now are the Megalechis which are currently only 4-5cm long, the Severum which is 4-5cm in diameter and my rainbow which is 6-7 cm(everyone leaves it alone the last couple of months). My other cichlids do not try to prey on them. They only initially tried a little but within a couple hours stopped, with no incident(a little yelling goes a long way, they don't like to displease you like a dog...). Also the new fish and Mesonauta(5-6cm) will get in today. Should i wait a day or more for them to settle(especially the small Mesonauta) before i add the salvini or is it good to add it in with the rest? When salvini gets in, will it try to boss the tank right away and prey on the small ones or try to ''blend in'' peacefully? From what i have seen so far with my others, if the initial reaction to small fish does not succeed, they see them as tankmates and respect them from then on. Of course none of the others is salvini. But even salvini learnt to ignore clown pleco in my small tank, though it did bit him again on the tail once after 4-6months of peace. It has learnt to respect me more, it tended to threaten my hand and even bite(pierced the skin once) when i worked near its hideout.
So its the initial reaction i am most afraid of regarding the small ones and its wish and fierceness in claiming a certain area. What i hope is that with the larger space it will be calmer than its species is famed. Plus it will always be single, so no breeding aggression. What do you think and what would you advise to assure long term peaceful coexistence with the other fish, cichlids and catfish?

Another thing i would like to ask is, how do you remove the young from cichlids breeding in a community tank to not have overpopulation and not allow much picking by the other cichlids?

Thank you very much in advance! :)
Kostas G
 
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby BC in SK » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:43 am

Kostas G wrote: It still spends its day mostly hiding in my other tank where the only tankmates are catfish, and its a really beautiful cichlid that its a shame to feel insecure just because there are no other fish moving around.

That is to be expected, given the situation of tank mates. IMO, it won't get any better in this respect, as IME adults are even less out going then young fish, in the absence of many active and out going tank mates. I certainly did mention it, in this threadhttps://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=368330. Even quoted myself to mention it a second time and suggest you maybe over looking this fact. Given the circumstances, I thought it likely a poor choice for this tank. Rainbow cichlid probably one of many good options for this tank.
Kostas G wrote:I am still thinking of moving the salvini to my bigger tank.

It's probably worth a try. I guess in the end, if it proves to aggressive it could always be removed.
The rainbow(s) and/or festivum could be moved to the tank that the salvini came from, if the general atmosphere gets too rough. My suspicion is that the salvini would probably be unlikely to focus on the festivum, but no real way to know the future, nor whether or not somebody else would. Although, when I kept angelfish in rough tanks, salvini was really the one lone exception that did NOT give angelfish any special consideration ( they were chased away like any other CA/SA!)
BC in SK
 
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:06 pm
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Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby Kostas G » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:30 pm

Yes, i remember you mentioning it. I proceeded with it because it was ok for the tank size and considered a personable species. And it is! It takes food of my hand and is out watching me clean the tank, doing maintenance, etc. I call it by its name, and out it comes. Its just not generally out when i am not messing with the tank or not calling it. It did get better and its more outgoing when i am in the office but when i am not there, it doesn't get out much, sometimes not at all from what the others tell me. And even when i am there, its still out only 40% of the time at best, watching me. That does not bother me, i consider it a worthy choice and its the fish that got me into setting up my 1000l tank into a cichlid and catfish tank. But if i can give a better home to this wonderful fish without hurting my others and keeping peace, i would prefer to do so.

The only cichlids chasing the Mesonauta(they are M. sp. ''Rio Juffari''. Probably M. egregious from their looks) when they get too close, is my texas(H. carpintis), the firemouth(it holds a 25x25cm territory based inside an amazon sword), and the rainbow(!). Nothing serious, but the rainbow does want to bite them for some strange reason and takes breeding colors when they get close. The other cichlids ignore them and the general atmosphere of the tank is peaceful with no bitten fins or mean chases. Lets hope salvini behaves as well.

How long would you wait for the Mesonauta to settle before attempting to introduce the salvini?
Kostas G
 
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby BC in SK » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:01 am

Kostas G wrote:How long would you wait for the Mesonauta to settle before attempting to introduce the salvini?

Difficult question to answer. But I don't think it matters too much, as think it not too likely that a salvini would focus on them too much, given other tank mates.
IME salvini are very quick to establish themselves in terms of the pecking order and are very seldom disadvantaged much, by being introduced later.
BC in SK
 
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:06 pm
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Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby Kostas G » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:17 am

Thank you, this helps a lot. The fins of the Mesonauta are fixing now(they had severe fin rot following their import) so maybe at the end of this week or beginning of the next, i can move the salvini(trying to catch it in a planted tank will be interesting.....I am only counting in the fact that it comes out to defend its territory when an object gets too close to its elaborate ''nest''). Hope all goes well and helps reduce the chasing of the Nic towards Green Terror. Nic has expanded its territory to include 4/5th of the tank......At least its not too eager to bite, but it is persistent in the chase some times. Its around 20cm now
Kostas G
 
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

Postby Kostas G » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:48 am

So far Salvini is behaving more than decently and not fighting the other cichlids. Its getting chased often though and has not been allowed to settle in one place for more than half a day before being chased enough to abandon the area. Its not getting damaged though and is handling the situation progressively better while the cichlids are getting more tolerant. Still its not settled though.

When it got a place of his own, it was trying to keep it fish free but was not damaging the fish entering its area, more like chasing a bit, threatening or pushing away. A slight nip if they were not getting the message. It did manage to damage a pleco a bit but not much. This pleco can generally drive away any cichlid he wants, so he just has to chase that one away sooner as he has gotten tolerant of the other cichlids that are no more threatening him.

The salvini is no focusing on the small fish enough in a bad manner nor tries to eat them. Initially is was curious but no more.

Any tips on helping the salvini find a place in the cichlid hierarchy withought getting any other in a disadvantage? Basically the Apha(Nic) of the tank has not accepted its presence enough and the second in order(GT) hasn't either. The GT is only 2/3rd of the Salvini though and would easily find itself below the salvini in hierarchy if the Nic wasn't so strong and not accepting of salvini.
Kostas G
 
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:04 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

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