Compatibility and suggestions for 1000l tank

[Kostas G]

Hello,

I plan to keep the following in a 1000l, 2m long tank:

4 Panaque L190 or L191
2-3 Platydoras costatus
3 Baryancistrus demantoides or L81

1 Apteronotus albifrons

1 Aequidens rivulatus
1 Herichthys carpintis or cyanoguttatus
1 Hypsophrys nicaraguariensis
1 Heros severus
(1 Archocentrus multispinosus and/or
1 Nandompsis octofasciatus or
1 Cichlasoma salvini )

The must keep fish are the catfish and the Aequidens rivulatus. The rest are up for debate wether to keep all of them, some of them or some others(open to suggestions).

Tank is filtered by 300l sump and has the potential for a lot of current. I can keep the current down for the cichlids though

Thank you very much in advance!

[Kostas G]

I went with the following:

1 Aequidens rivulatus (Green Terror) - A true favorite
3 Platydoras costatus
1 Glyptoperichthys joselimaianus

I am thinking of not adding any of the Central American cichlids unless they can tolerate/be happy with soft water and 6.5 ph and mainly, not harass the catfish nor the Green Terror.
I saw Apteronotus albifrons at the shop go and nibble on other fishes and definitely did not like that. Wouldn't like it going about harassing the catfish while they hide/sleep. So from my list above, i am only left with the catfish and Green Severum. I am open to suggestions for other fish that would do well with the Green Terror and the catfish in a 1000l tank. Preferable not plant eaters as i want to plant the tank some. Green Terror, despite their reputation, tend to be pretty docile fish if not challenged

Thank you very much in advance!

[Kostas G]

I proceeded with:
1 Herichthys elioti
1 Hypsophrys nicaraguensis
1 Archocentrus multispinosus
1 more Platydoras armatulus(costatus is the older, wrong name)

They are not fighting but there is some dominance order with Nicaragua chasing Green Terror and Green Terror chasing the other two, mainly the Rainbow which is the smallest in the tank at 4cm. Most of the time, they can all wander calmly though. Maybe the Rainbow is chased a little too much at times, I think this should resolve soon but I would like your opinion on wether this mix should work well long term. I was wary about adding a Rainbow but a person I know with much experience in keeping cichlids, suggested it should be fine in that large a tank and added while everyone is still young. The Rainbow doesn't seem overly stressed and does not avoid the other cichlids, it goes right with them, swimming close to them when they let it. It has colored nicely since being added to the tank.

I also plan on adding a Heros efasciatus or H. notatus or H. "Rotkeil", and Apteronotus albifrons as my friends insist it's not hurt in other fish. Will this work?

Then I will only add a small group group of Panaque nigrolineatus and other plecos. Thankfully, the cichlids ignore the catfish and the pleco, eating with them peacefully from the same tablet/food and passing right by the without being annoyed by their presence. I won't have any breeding pairs of cichlids, only of plecos/catfish, so I hope aggression will be very low in the tank

Here is a photo of my Green Terror the day I added it in the tank


It has colored much more since then

And one of the Platydoras armatulus


Thank you very much in advance!

[BC in SK]

I would like your opinion on wether this mix should work well long term.

IMO has decent chance of working out well in a tank that size.
Difficult to say whether or not the rainbow will end up getting bullied excessively( ?). IME, they did much better with out other CA/SA cichlids in the tank.
I'd definitely add at least the severum, as IMO and IME, it is often more difficult to make a very low number of cichlids in a tank work out well in the long run.
The knife fish, not too familiar with them as I have never owned one, so really can't say too much about them. I would tend to think, if there are enough cichlids in the tank, it would get left alone for the most part (?).

[Kostas G]

Thank you very much for your reply! I appreciate it
Great to hear it should work out! The bullying of the rainbow has mostly stopped and is only rare now, mostly during the feeding time. The Rainbow has no problem eating more than its share though... Now the Green Terror is the most bullied one but it is managing it progressively better. Nicaragua rules the tank. And the catfish, the these are left alone by all, they even climb on the Nicaragua and eat alongside it.

I am tracking a Green/Turquoise Severum or a Rotkeil to add, whatever I find with impressive colors and neon colored, worm like lines on the cheeks. It has proven impossible to find right now(only the red spotted is common here) but hopefully soon. And I think that will be it as far as cichlids go, I want them to all have an area to call home and not get stressed by the presence of the others. I would love to have a Herichthys cyanoguttatus or carpintis, whichever gets smaller, but it's too much I think for this tank. I also don't want to risk the catfish and the current cichlids are catfish friendly so far.
I would like your opinion on this.

I will probably not add the knifefish, I have read both good and horror stories with them and I think there are too many fishes swimming already. For their adult size

[Kostas G]

Here are a few photos:

The tank


At dusk


Nicaragua (male, right?)




Green Terror (female, right?)




Glyptoperichthys joselimaianus


No fish has gotten fin damage since added to the tank. The Green Terror is healing it's damaged fins as I got it right after import and it arrived somewhat beaten up(better than the others from that import though). The rainbow and firemouth are healing from a very light, barely visible haze on one of their eyes, they are getting better and better. The Rainbow came like that, the firemouth could have gotten it when it was netted at the shop

[Mr Chromedome]

The Nic does appear to be male, and the Terror does look female. The genus on that Pleco is changed, it is now Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus. I have two myself, purchased under the wrong common name. Did not plan on getting a fish that will reach 12 inches. Watch out for mild aggression by that Pleco.

Very interesting piece of wood, I like the look of the tank.

[Kostas G]

That's great, as I planned them to be I am not too fond of the hump on male Greeb Terrors and I like the bulky, rounded face of male Nicargua better.

I didn't remember the name change, thank you! I always liked this species and with a 2m tank, I decided to have it. I will be adding a group of Panaque nigrolineatus as soon as I find them as well.
You bought it as clown pleco? That's one of the annoying things of common names. I am searching for some true clown plecos(Panaque maccus) for my other tank and can't really find any lately, they are all P. joselimaianus.

Thank you! I have 180kg of tropical wood and the best part of 50kg of basaltic and slate stones in the tank.

[Kostas G]

Would adding a Herichthys carpintis in addition to the Severum be ok or would I risk aggression to the cichlids or to the catfish? Would all cichlids have enough of a territory to be happy when adult or would it be too much?

Thank you very much in advance!

[Kostas G]

I am after a female H. carpintis, not male. Are they well behaved like my other species?

[BC in SK]

I am after a female H. carpintis, not male. Are they well behaved like my other species?

Never owned a H. carpintis so difficult for me to say. Have had plenty of H. cyanaguttatus over the years, and know that fish quite well. IMO, an H. cyanaguttatus would be a step up in aggression level from the rest of your stock, and are fairly comparable to Veija and Amphilophus in terms of aggression level. But from what I read on the internet, H.carpinitis is usually seen as somewhat smaller and less aggressive then H. cyanaguttataus, though I would still tend to think it's typically a more aggressive species then most of your stock (?)
Even with less aggressive species, there is still chance that some one won't get along requiring something to be removed at some point in time. I think you would be better off considering fish like festivum, chocolate cichlid. Or even a smaller pike cichlid like a belly crawler or saxatilis-type. For another CA, some of the less aggressive Cryptoheros . Pearsi and bocourti have the reputation of being mild mannered but are very large fish.

Would all cichlids have enough of a territory to be happy when adult or would it be too much?

Unrealistic to think that all cichlids will own territory from each other. Some may own a space from all or some, at times but generally it's a pecking order.
IMO, 5- 6 cichlids is at or near the minimum to make a community work. Most people that have successful tanks stock much higher then this. Low enough number, and even less aggressive species are more inclined to single out somebody or even attempt to claim the entire tank and eliminate all of it's competition. Less is better up to a point.

[Kostas G]

Thank you very much for your reply! I went with a baby Herichthys carpintis that i hope should turn female and was a rather passive and peaceful one compared to some of the very aggressive other babies. Of course this can change over time but lets hope it doesn't. So far its great and sometimes follows along other fish like my rainbow or firemouth. I am surprised at how big a food piece it can shallow, almost as big as its head or belly! Its around 4cm right now...

From the ones you mentioned, i do like the chocolate cichlid and have had it in mind, but wasn't sure if it would do well with the rest but also never thought i should add more than the cichlids i had mentioned that i had in mind. So, do you think things would be better for all the cichlids if the final stockist was to be:

1 Aequidens rivulets
1 Hypsophrys nicaraguensis
1 Thorichthys eliot
1 Herichthys carpintis
1 Archocentrus multifasciatus

1 Heros severus
1 Hypselecara temporalis
1 Nandompsis octofasciatus

4 Panaque nigrolineatus (most probably L190, grow to be around 35cm)
1 Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus
4 Platydoras costatus
2-3 other small pleco species

Would you think such a stocking would work better than without the Hypselecara and Nandompsis? To my eyes, that would be too much i think when they all grow up but thats just the way i imagine it, i probably have seen higher stocking levels without it seeming too unnatural but i generally like to give my fish the best and keep the stocking levels on the lower side(plecos/catfish are a must to me)

Thank you very much in advance

[Kostas G]

Ah, I forgot 1 Guianacara geayi. Would that be compatible as well?

I was thinking if it would also be possible to have the smaller cichlid species like the Rainbow or Guianacara(or even Thorichthys) in breeding pairs without them causing havoc for no reason or risking damage to them or the other fish, and especially the catfish/plecos. I think even these would be problematic but maybe not so much if they spawn in concealed tight spots? Not sure, would like your opinion on this matter.

The Catfish and plecos I hold especially dear always, since they well outlive any cichlid(30-60years is normal life span for them) and are pretty interactive and clever(of course I love the cichlids and have tons of character too), so if you think that any of the mentioned species would be a problem or breeding pairs would risk aggression towards the catfish, please let me know to avoid it I have seen many calm and peaceful carpintis around and that is the only reason I went for one of them.

So far so good, the cichlids respect the catfish and ignore them/take care not to damage them during feeding from the same food piece...

Thank you very much in advance!

[BC in SK]

Would you think such a stocking would work better than without the Hypselecara and Nandompsis?

Difficult to say.
IME, a chocolate much more mild mannered fish then a JD.
Aggression is relative. How you label a fish "aggressive', "mild mannered" ect. is really in comparison to other species. All these cichlids are generally aggressive compared to small community fish. Fish like nics and JD are typically less aggressive then most of the large CA......but IME can be very aggressive fish at times. GT as well.
I think when you stock something like a rainbow cichlid.....you want to try and avoid too many 'medium aggressive' cichlids. Nics and GT already fall in this category. JD would be another.
Severum and chocalate cichlid, in most situations, usually rather peaceful compared to CA cichlids.

Ah, I forgot 1 Guianacara geayi. Would that be compatible as well?

Not personally familiar with them as I have never owned one. From what I have seen and know of them, a mild mannered SA. Sort of think they wouldn't do as well as a severum with rough company.... very seldom see them in tanks with CA cichlids.

I was thinking if it would also be possible to have the smaller cichlid species like the Rainbow or Guianacara(or even Thorichthys) in breeding pairs without them causing havoc for no reason or risking damage to them or the other fish, and especially the catfish/plecos. I think even these would be problematic but maybe not so much if they spawn in concealed tight spots? Not sure, would like your opinion on this matter.

Yes, it's certainly possible.
It's also very possible, at least as large adults, that they wouldn't have the capability to own the space. A full grown male nic would be a formidable enemy. Even owning a small space, won't come for free.
IME, rainbow cichlids had no where close to the capability of owning territory in the company of larger CA. In small tanks with small community fish I witnessed rainbows breed many times......and was shocked at how a CA cichlid could breed, claim so little space with out any real competitors and virtually non-aggressive. There is always some friction between plecos and breeding cichlids, even if it is not serious, though I think the main threat for some of these cichlids would be it's inability to stop the plecos from eating there eggs/wrigglers.

[Kostas G]

No JD then, never was a priority. Probably Herichthys carpintis will be in this category as well, but hopefully it's a female. GT i hope is a female as well. That will probably allow the male Nic to be the ruler which so far is. I can see what you mean that they can be aggressive at times. The Nic gets pretty crazy sometimes when it gets too much of its food stolen by the others and tries to clear half of the aquarium around the food. Of course he can't, and accepts that. He also seldom chases the smaller fish away, only the bigger ones. And never minds the catfish. Thankfully, the majority of the time or almost always, he displays the kind of aggression a Microgeophagus altispinosa shows: pushes the other fish away without biting.

I could go with a female chocolate if you think adding it would be good for the peace of the tank. Isn't it too big a fish in addition to the others?

I have heard they do well in CA communities but don't know much either. Are rainbows better able to protect themselves than Guianacara? I am mostly worried of their small final size. Rainbows supposedly get bigger and up to 17cm in nature. Any way to help mine grow to bigger adult size rather than the 10cm average I hear?

Would they still breed without being able to hold the space? What do you mean that it won't come for free? That they will be picked on/damaged by the proper ruler of the area?

It's great how the rainbows bred so peacefully for you! Did they breed on aquatic plants or closer to the bottom? Mine likes to hang around the floating plants and wood tangle.

Yeah, this friction is I am afraid about. Both the Platydoras abd plecos are pretty good at sneaking in and eating everything, which I don't mind much but the cichlids mind. My experience with the smaller Microgeophagus and Apistogramma has not been very good. The catfish get bitten fins and the breeding cichlids often die out of the blue(stress?). If the rainbow breeds on live plants at the water surface, it might be worth getting a pair and breeding it but otherwise, I do see friction with the plecos coming. Would you think it's wise to do it or asking for trouble?