Illness, Health & Nutrition • Protein - is it really to BLAME..

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Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby shiftyfox » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:13 am

After spending many hours researching Malawi Bloat I came across an interesting article about bloat/food and the many myths that surround this disease..
From what I can gather from this we should be more worried about carbohydrates in fish food..

http://aquariumscience.org/index.php/3- ... awi-bloat/
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Re: Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby ken31cay » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:39 am

Interesting and thanks for sharing. RE: Carbohydrates cause bloat: so what caused the bloat in the Discus that were fed only beef heart then?

I've seen 'Hex' in Discus, which presented with white or clear stringy poop but without the classic bloated symptoms. And I've seen bloat in africans several times which included the bloated bodies. With all I've absorbed from various sources, along with those experiences, I simply think the cause of bloat is caused by stressors from excess aggression, sub-par water, over feeding, which then allows the Hexamita and/or C. Diff pathogens within the fishes' gut to multiply beyond normal levels.

What I personally do to mitigate bloat:

1. monitor & promptly deal with excess aggression in the tank.
2. keep the tank environment very 'clean'
3. feed a minimum to my fish the first 3 weeks after I put them in the tank. Afterward I can increase the amount, but not over feed.

Not a science major so interested to hear from others what really causes bloat 8)
450gal Frontosa (blue Zaire Moba) & haps
180gal Labeotropheus Trewavasae Chilumba & Kenyi
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Re: Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby damerf » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:50 am

I have never had an African with Bloat. Is it fatal in most cases? Or is it easily curable?
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Re: Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby ken31cay » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:25 am

damerf wrote:I have never had an African with Bloat. Is it fatal in most cases? Or is it easily curable?


I wouldn't say it's easily curable but I have had success when I double-dosed the Seachem Metroplex recommended treatment. In that case some of my fish had the bloated body symptoms. The ones who were slightly bloated recovered but one that was very bloated was too far gone and died.
450gal Frontosa (blue Zaire Moba) & haps
180gal Labeotropheus Trewavasae Chilumba & Kenyi
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Re: Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby DJRansome » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:38 pm

Best is to prevent. I've been bloat free for many years, knock on wood.

Easy to cure if you catch it early.

There is a LOT of debate and not much funding for fish tank diseases. I am convinced there are multiple organisms and we call them all bloat.

Some of the protein concerns stem from mbuna with a long gut (demasoni) like the cow and the fact that it works better with a vegetable-centric diet. No one says no protein for mbuna and tropheus, just limited and good quality and aquatic.

Carbohydrates too...avoid starchy grains and emphasize aquatic ingredients like spirulina.
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Re: Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby shiftyfox » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:36 pm

Currently I only feed my Mbuna the odd bit of flake but predominately NLS 0.5 and 1mm pellets.

Should I be giving them some veggies once or twice a week - peas, cucumber ect
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Re: Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby ken31cay » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:09 pm

Have had no bloat in my current Mbuna tank. I feed Northfin Veggie 2mm pellets, frozen spirulina cubes, and Elive algae & spinach flakes. I've heard others say that fresh vegetables are good, ex/ spinach (frozen then thawed to soften), de-shelled peas, zucchini. I tried the spinach once but my Mbuna didn't seem interested.
450gal Frontosa (blue Zaire Moba) & haps
180gal Labeotropheus Trewavasae Chilumba & Kenyi
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Re: Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby shiftyfox » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:19 pm

I might try some de shelled peas tomorrow - see if they will eat them
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Re: Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby DJRansome » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:29 pm

As long as your protein is under 40% the NLS Cichlid Formula is fine as your single staple. I find veges create more problems (pollution) than they solve (digestion and/or nutrition). I don't vacuum leftover vege bits daily.

It's fun to try though. For peas, use thawed frozen ones or cook them. I had a Synodontis choke on a chunk of pea once...never a good thing when a fish that can live over 30 years dies from something silly.

Zucchini is easiest...cut in half and stab with a fork for easy removal (leave the fork in) and they eat the insides...leave the shell for you to remove easily.
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75G Demasoni, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Similis, Petricola
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Re: Protein - is it really to BLAME..

Postby BillD » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:06 pm

Apparently, digestible carbs cause fatty livers. This is documented from studies done more for the aquaculture industry. In the old days, carbs were rendered undigestible by the processing. Modern processing techniques leave the carbs digestible. So, it is more important now to assess the amount and form of carbs in fish food.
It is interesting to note that spirulina, much touted for vegetarian diets, is 65% protein.
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