Lake Victoria Basin, West African, Madagascar & Asian Species • Thoracochromis brauschi

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Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby StructureGuy » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:43 am

Finally, got a good pic of this guy.

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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby OllieNZ » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:50 am

Very nice :-)
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby Deeda » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:30 am

That is not a good pic, it's a great one! Beautiful fish, I haven't seen that species available in my area yet.
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby DrgRcr » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:42 am

They are a beautiful fish for sure, and that shot does them justice! I had a group a couple of years ago, but was blessed with mostly males. They are pretty hard on each other, and reportedly have very male heavy broods in harder water.
125g Mbuna-Labs,Rusties,Acei,Afra,Fuelleborni, Syno Multi
72g All Male Peacock/Hap
55g-WC Metriaclima Elongatus Chailosi
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby Bd79 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:10 pm

Deeda wrote:That is not a good pic, it's a great one! Beautiful fish, I haven't seen that species available in my area yet.

A friend of mine is selling them on Aquabid. She's in Arlington, Virginia. I've seen her fish and they're beautiful.
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby Mschn99 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:15 am

spectacular species and picture!!
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby samaki » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:38 am

Hi really nice shot but yur male hasn't any ocellis?
intruiging :)
musy o tunya the water sounds like thunder

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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby AlmightyJoshaeus » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:29 pm

Out of curiosity, but is this a particularly obnoxious haplochromine?
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby Chester B » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:39 am

I've kept them a couple of times and didn't find them to be too bad. I would not put them in with mbuna or anything like that. I've kept them in a species tank and with other Victoria basin cichlids. As for egg spots on the anal fins, I can't remember 100% but I don't recall seeing any.
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby Mr Chromedome » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:18 am

While this is a Haplochromine, it isn't a Victorian. It is from the Fwa River in the Congo basin; basically, West African. Curious as to what kind of conditions they are being kept in, as I would consider keeping them in soft water knowing the origin.

Beautiful fish, Kevin.
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby AlmightyJoshaeus » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:25 pm

Trying to breed these in hard water seems to result in a lot of males, so although they seem to be sturdy, I think this is one fish that would benefit from softer, more neutral or acidic water.
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby StructureGuy » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:40 pm

Mr Chromedome wrote:While this is a Haplochromine, it isn't a Victorian. It is from the Fwa River in the Congo basin; basically, West African. Curious as to what kind of conditions they are being kept in, as I would consider keeping them in soft water knowing the origin.

This fish was featured in this Aprils Cichlid News. The article by Oliver Lucanus said they came from central part of the Democratic Republic of Congo so it's maybe not exactly what I'd call a west African riverine. Lucanus said that "six springs form two lakes" ...... and "the crystal clear water is medium hard and alkaline."

AlmightyJoshaeus wrote:Trying to breed these in hard water seems to result in a lot of males, so although they seem to be sturdy, I think this is one fish that would benefit from softer, more neutral or acidic water.

I don't know why that would be, given what the article said.

samaki wrote:Hi really nice shot but your male hasn't any ocellis?
intruiging :)

The wild caught brauschi in the picture in the article did not have ocellis either.

I have them in a single species tank and I have a good number of females (I think?). The subdominant male (one or more?) looks very much like the females.

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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby samaki » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:37 am

AlmightyJoshaeus wrote:Trying to breed these in hard water seems to result in a lot of males, so although they seem to be sturdy, I think this is one fish that would benefit from softer, more neutral or acidic water.

Hi I don't think so as they live in hard waters, it could be due also to the temperature and not the hardness, this is not the only factor
Chester B wrote:I've kept them a couple of times and didn't find them to be too bad. I would not put them in with mbuna or anything like that. I've kept them in a species tank and with other Victoria basin cichlids. As for egg spots on the anal fins, I can't remember 100% but I don't recall seeing any.
Yeah yu're right, the males of this species don't seem to carry eggs spots on their anal fin, so this is quite interresting knowing the role of the egg spots in the reproduction of the haplochromines, in this case, the male color seems sufficient as in lamprologines
Mr Chromedome wrote:While this is a Haplochromine, it isn't a Victorian. It is from the Fwa River in the Congo basin; basically, West African. Curious as to what kind of conditions they are being kept in, as I would consider keeping them in soft water knowing the origin.

Beautiful fish, Kevin.
The west african are fish that live in west Africa lol, when we call fishes from the central and east africa west african because they live in acidic waters is a kind of misnomer, some fish that live in rain forest live in soft water but this is not the case of the Fwa river and some others that are cearly hard and alkaline.Even the great Congo river has various pH and Hardness
musy o tunya the water sounds like thunder

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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby Mr Chromedome » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:43 am

Lake Fwa/Fwa River (was hard to locate on Google maps, as it is labeled Mfwa on those maps?) is a part of the Congo drainage, and based on that information alone I would have assumed a soft water species. Having now learned that it is actually spring fed with moderately hard water, that puts a different spin on things. As for whether it would be considered Western rather than Eastern, generally anything that is actually part of the Congo drainage is usually listed as Western. Given the location of Mfwa, I would concede Central, but the unique species flock of this body of water and the considerable distance WEST of the Rift systems certainly keeps them separate from the "Victorian" Haps. I would wager that any sort of DNA studies would verify this.

I have often railed against people saying "African Cichlids" when they are talking about only Rift Lake Cichlids. More recently I have seen a lot of people referring to Haps as "Victorians" due to a general body shape even though they are not found anywhere near that lake or its satellites. I guess my assumption that a Congo basin fish would be West African is almost as bad. ;)

I need to restart my subscription to Cichlid News.
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Re: Thoracochromis brauschi

Postby samaki » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:55 am

Hi here's an article dealing with the victorian species flock origins, as yu can read, the victorian cichlids(Haplochromis super genus) are from two origins, nilotic and congolese and that probably, the genus or a fish like Thoracochromis could be, regarding genetic origins, one of the genus involved in the victorian super flock( including lake victorai cichlids but also sattelites lakes)

Nuclear markers reveal unexpected genetic variation and a Congolese-Nilotic origin of the Lake Victoria cichlid species flock.
Seehausen O1, Koetsier E, Schneider MV, Chapman LJ, Chapman CA, Knight ME, Turner GF, van Alphen JJ, Bills R.
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Erratum in

Proc R Soc Lond B Biol Sci. 2003 Dec 22;270(1533):2637-8.

Abstract

Phylogenetic analyses based on mitochondrial (mt) DNA have indicated that the cichlid species flock of the Lake Victoria region is derived from a single ancestral species found in East African rivers, closely related to the ancestor of the Lake Malawi cichlid species flock. The Lake Victoria flock contains ten times less mtDNA variation than the Lake Malawi radiation, consistent with current estimates of the ages of the lakes. We present results of a phylogenetic investigation using nuclear (amplified fragment length polymorphism) markers and a wider coverage of riverine haplochromines. We demonstrate that the Lake Victoria-Edward flock is derived from the morphologically and ecologically diverse cichlid genus Thoracochromis from the Congo and Nile, rather than from the phenotypically conservative East African Astatotilapia. This implies that the ability to express much of the morphological diversity found in the species flock may by far pre-date the origin of the flock. Our data indicate that the nuclear diversity of the Lake Victoria-Edward species flock is similar to that of the Lake Malawi flock, indicating that the genetic diversity is considerably older than the 15 000 years that have passed since the lake began to refill. Most of this variation is manifested in trans-species polymorphisms, indicating very recent cladogenesis from a genetically very diverse founder stock. Our data do not confirm strict monophyly of either of the species flocks, but raise the possibility that these flocks have arisen from hybrid swarms.
musy o tunya the water sounds like thunder

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