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Juli Neo Hybrids

2K views 17 replies 6 participants last post by  sir_keith 
#1 ·
I have a pair of J. Transcriptus in my Tang Community tank and recently, the female Juli bred with a lone male N. Brichardi, not once but 3 times. Has anyone ever heard of this before?
 
#5 ·
They will not be sterile. I would separate the hybrids and the fish that created the hybrids or the problem will continue. Why not rehome the brichardi?

If the tank is large enough you could add a group of 5 Synodontis multipunctatus to perform fry patrol.
 
#6 ·
DJRansome said:
...They will not be sterile...
You can't make a blanket statement like that, for reasons outlined below.

Augustus67 said:
...I'm assuming that being hybridized across genera will result in sterility...
Not necessarily; it depends largely on how closely the parental fishes are related. If their karyotypes are very different, heteroploidy in the progeny will likely result in hybrid sterility. However, if the parental karyotypes are similar (i. e. meiotically stable), the hybrids may be fertile. There is no way to know in advance, and just because we assign species to different genera does not mean that they cannot produce fertile hybrid progeny. That's the root source of the hybrid problem in Rift Lake cichlids.
 
#10 ·
sir_keith said:
DJRansome said:
...They will not be sterile...
You can't make a blanket statement like that, for reasons outlined below.

Augustus67 said:
...I'm assuming that being hybridized across genera will result in sterility...
Not necessarily; it depends largely on how closely the parental fishes are related. If their karyotypes are very different, heteroploidy in the progeny will likely result in hybrid sterility. However, if the parental karyotypes are similar (i. e. meiotically stable), the hybrids may be fertile. There is no way to know in advance, and just because we assign species to different genera does not mean that they cannot produce fertile hybrid progeny. That's the root source of the hybrid problem in Rift Lake cichlids.
From experience, they won't be sterile. Blanket statements cannot be made, but when you've seen... you've seen.

The biggest shocker I've seen, was a fertile Tropheus x M. auratus hybrid.
 
#12 ·
...From experience, they won't be sterile. Blanket statements cannot be made, but when you've seen... you've seen...
Well yes, sort of. What you've seen are anecdotal observations, relevant only to the small number of particular crosses that you've seen. Those observations in no way contradict the vast body of scientific literature concerning hybrid sterility to which I referred.
 
#16 ·
Regarding the question as to whether hybrids are fertile, I was surprised to hear that about Tangs because I thought all Malawi hybrids were fertile. But I never spawned one...I do my best to prevent hybrids let alone allow them to spawn.

So are we saying most Malawi hybrids are infertile as well?
 
#17 ·
In most cases, it's going to depend on how closely related the cichlids are. Distant enough and they may only produce one sex (even a crosses in the same genus).Distant enough and the offspring are sterile. Even more distant crosses, and no offspring will be produced. But really can't make any blanketed statements.
Lake Tanganyika has numerous cichlid lineages.Different tribes. A Lamprologini X Lamprologini cross (such as the OP's) are fairly common in the hobby and at least some are known to be fertile (if not most?). But as far as I know, nobody has crossed different tribes from lake Tanganyika, such as a Haplochromini X Lamprologini (which according to the DNA work that has been done so far,would actually be more closely related then a cross between Orechromini X Coptodoni).
The lake Malawi Haplochromine flock is thought to have evolved fairly recently (some researches say that the Malawi and Victorian Haplochromines evolved from a Tanganyikan Haplochromine ancestor(s).) They are all closely related. What we know from experience in the hobby is that most of these Malawi Haplochromines when crossbred produce fertile offspring.....but we really don't know for certain that every single possible cross will.
Sometimes a successful cross depends on which is male or which is female. My second link (pg.73) shows that male Haplochromis nubilis X female Haplochromis burtoni is described as a lethal cross but when the sexes are reversed, male Haplochromis burtoni X female Haplochromis nubilis , then it is a successful cross (F1 viable and F2 viable and fertile).
 
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