Lake Tanganyika Species • Juli Neo Hybrids

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Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby Augustus67 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:35 pm

I have a pair of J. Transcriptus in my Tang Community tank and recently, the female Juli bred with a lone male N. Brichardi, not once but 3 times. Has anyone ever heard of this before?
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Re: Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby Fogelhund » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:31 am

Augustus67 wrote:I have a pair of J. Transcriptus in my Tang Community tank and recently, the female Juli bred with a lone male N. Brichardi, not once but 3 times. Has anyone ever heard of this before?


Yes. These fish can hybridize for sure, and there has been all kinds of crazy mixes over the years.
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Re: Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby sir_keith » Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:50 pm

It happens. Unfortunately. :(
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Re: Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby Augustus67 » Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:16 pm

I'm assuming that being hybridized across genera will result in sterility so I guess there is no danger in keeping a few for visual interest. I can't cull so whatever the Calvus don't get are new additions.
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Re: Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby DJRansome » Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:33 pm

They will not be sterile. I would separate the hybrids and the fish that created the hybrids or the problem will continue. Why not rehome the brichardi?

If the tank is large enough you could add a group of 5 Synodontis multipunctatus to perform fry patrol.
125G Borleyi, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Similis, Petricola
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Re: Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby sir_keith » Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:50 pm

DJRansome wrote: ...They will not be sterile...


You can't make a blanket statement like that, for reasons outlined below.

Augustus67 wrote: ...I'm assuming that being hybridized across genera will result in sterility...


Not necessarily; it depends largely on how closely the parental fishes are related. If their karyotypes are very different, heteroploidy in the progeny will likely result in hybrid sterility. However, if the parental karyotypes are similar (i. e. meiotically stable), the hybrids may be fertile. There is no way to know in advance, and just because we assign species to different genera does not mean that they cannot produce fertile hybrid progeny. That's the root source of the hybrid problem in Rift Lake cichlids.
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Re: Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby DJRansome » Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:19 pm

Thank you for the additional information.
125G Borleyi, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Similis, Petricola
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Re: Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby sir_keith » Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:20 pm

DJRansome wrote:Thank you for the additional information.

Sure. This hybrid stuff in African cichlids is complicated business.
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Re: Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby Augustus67 » Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:21 am

Thanks for the info everyone. I am going to rehome the Brichardi to prevent this from occurring again.
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Re: Juli Neo Hybrids

Postby Fogelhund » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:28 am

sir_keith wrote:
DJRansome wrote: ...They will not be sterile...


You can't make a blanket statement like that, for reasons outlined below.

Augustus67 wrote: ...I'm assuming that being hybridized across genera will result in sterility...


Not necessarily; it depends largely on how closely the parental fishes are related. If their karyotypes are very different, heteroploidy in the progeny will likely result in hybrid sterility. However, if the parental karyotypes are similar (i. e. meiotically stable), the hybrids may be fertile. There is no way to know in advance, and just because we assign species to different genera does not mean that they cannot produce fertile hybrid progeny. That's the root source of the hybrid problem in Rift Lake cichlids.


From experience, they won't be sterile. Blanket statements cannot be made, but when you've seen... you've seen.

The biggest shocker I've seen, was a fertile Tropheus x M. auratus hybrid.
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