Lake Tanganyika Species • My fry are mooning! 4 out of 5 from the same batch.

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My fry are mooning! 4 out of 5 from the same batch.

Postby humsuplou » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:38 pm

They all look pale and have pretty obvious mooning, they are almost 2" now.
Is this due to genetic? FYI, I have white aragonite sand from Caribsea, with dark blackgorund.
Have been feeding them spirulina wince I first got them. about 2 months ago.
Anything that I can do at all to help improve this?
:-?
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Re: My fry are mooning! 4 out of 5 from the same batch.

Postby jaybuc » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:26 pm

humsuplou wrote:They all look pale and have pretty obvious mooning, they are almost 2" now.
Is this due to genetic? FYI, I have white aragonite sand from Caribsea, with dark blackgorund.
Have been feeding them spirulina wince I first got them. about 2 months ago.
Anything that I can do at all to help improve this?
:-?


Just happens sometimes..Wild fronts have mooning, so I think it's been proven that it's not "bad" breeding etc...Just put them on a good diet with NLS and a good Spirulina. If it's not to bad you should see it grow out as they mature.
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Postby Ron R. » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:57 am

What variety of fronts do you have and how long have you had them? Is this your first spawn?
180 g Oceanic. WC Moba Frontosa Colony & numerous fry. Equipment: 2 2217 Eheims, 2 6080 Tunze Streams, WISA airpump, Johnson temp controller....fishkeeping since 1988.
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Postby humsuplou » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:26 am

Ron R. wrote:What variety of fronts do you have and how long have you had them? Is this your first spawn?


They are all Mpimbwe, I got them from a local breeder about 2 months ago. When I first got them, they were about 1 - 1.25".
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Postby larry.beck » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:22 am

humsuplou - did these guys come from Todd? There aren't many frontosa breeders in our area. :)

If so send me a PM. His WC's produce great looking fry that I've seen growing out so I'm wondering what could be the problem... :-?
125g: hara, chipokae, cobalt blue, red zebra, greshakei, crabro, acei
55G: demasoni, cobue, lab, acei
55gal: frontosa, cyp, calvus, comp, syno
6g: occelatus
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Postby Ron R. » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:00 am

I have heard that feeding spirulina helps. About 5 years ago I bought some F1 moba juvies that had lighter black stripes. After a few days I noticed they had mooning and their stripes curved out at the bottom.

I kept them for 6 months and the mooning never got better. I ended up selling them because I didn't want this characteristic showing up in future fry. I was upfront with the buyer letting him know why I was selling them and showed him how they were different from other fry/juvies my wc colony had produced. I also sold the juvies at a much lower price.

In the end, you have to decide if you are comfortable with your fish. Many years ago I used to seek out fronts with broken and unique stripes. Now I want fronts with solid and dark stripes.

Here's a few pics taken back in 2006 to show you and others the difference in coloring and stripe patterns:

Image
this F1 moba juvie has mooning

Image
another shot of other side.

Image
shot of different fish. I think I had 4 total with mooning.

Image
side by side comparison of 2 F1 moba juvies.....one has mooning, one does not. Notice the color difference.

Image
another side by side shot

Image
last comparison shot

Sorry for some of the blurred pics. Hope this helps you and others here.
180 g Oceanic. WC Moba Frontosa Colony & numerous fry. Equipment: 2 2217 Eheims, 2 6080 Tunze Streams, WISA airpump, Johnson temp controller....fishkeeping since 1988.
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Postby humsuplou » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:45 pm

Thanks Ron.
So there are people out there who are willing yo buy mooned fry?
Will see how they turn out, hate to sell them since i raised them up ;)
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Postby jaybuc » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:58 pm

humsuplou wrote:Thanks Ron.
So there are people out there who are willing yo buy mooned fry?
Will see how they turn out, hate to sell them since i raised them up ;)


Sure...depends on how bad really...Like a said a lot of times with a good diet it will "grow" out. It doesn't bother me so much since it's seen in the wild...it's not like it's brought in by bad breeding etc...just my 2 cents. It really does matter how bad the mooning is
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Re:

Postby TommyKat » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:58 am

humsuplou wrote:Thanks Ron.
So there are people out there who are willing yo buy mooned fry?
Will see how they turn out, hate to sell them since i raised them up ;)


It has been several years. I was wondering how are your frontosa now. Do you still see some

mooning. Did you strips get better and darker on the top.

I just brought some Frontosa fry, shipped. I was very disappointed seeing some mooning on the top of the strips. The mooning on my fry are similar to the pictures in my post. NOT too bad but noticeable.

I don't know if you ( humsuplou ) will respond since your last login was 2011. So if anyone else can comment thanks.
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Re: Re:

Postby sir_keith » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:31 pm

TommyKat wrote: ...It has been several years. I was wondering how are your frontosa now. Do you still see some mooning. Did you strips get better and darker on the top ... ...if anyone else can comment thanks...


Pattern formation in vertebrate species is a genetically determined trait. The expressivity of that trait may be affected by environmental factors (e. g. diet), as well as by the developmental stage of the organism. Thus, the phenotypic expression of that trail may vary over time. The bifurcated stripe pattern of C. frontosa ('mooning') is subject to significant quantitative variation. Your fishes don't seem to have much 'mooning,' so it may (or may not) decrease over time. Either way, their progeny will likely exhibit this trait to a greater or lesser extent, because it is genetically determined.
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Re: My fry are mooning! 4 out of 5 from the same batch.

Postby Razzo » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:09 pm

The technical definition (or my definition 8) ) of "mooning" in Cyphotilapia is lack of black pigment. They either got it or they don't. I had a group of fry that I was watching closely as they appeared to have some slight "mooning." These white areas appeared intermittently and these appearances completely disappeared as they grew bigger. When they were little, sometimes their middle black bar was "perfect" and sometimes the slight moon would appear. Since these fry had black pigment, I did not consider it to be "mooning."

The key here is to be honest with the people buying your fry.

Also, nothing wrong with mooning. They are still a healthy fish and can provide years of enjoyment too.

Cheers,
Russ
Recovering frontosa breeder (I no longer have fry)
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