Lake Tanganyika Species • Attempt to avoid failure

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Attempt to avoid failure

Postby Nixxed77 » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:02 pm

Well i was told by my LFS that i could keep troph's with peacock cichlids but i was advised by someone on this board that its prolly not a good idea to do so. I was keeping them in a 60gal long tank and they seemed to be doing very well.

I have 4 what look to be moori troph's the guy at the fish store said they were called 'firecracker cichlids" and 3 duboisi still with the spots.

My questions are can i keep these fish together? And will they do ok in a 20 gal tank. Its the only option i have atm because i have no other tanks. Any advice on how to get these fish into a thriving environment would be appreciated thank you.
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:28 am

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Postby lloyd » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:18 pm

IMO...most failures happen when one or more incompatible species attempt breeding activities. HTH.
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Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:53 pm
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Postby IrkedCitizen » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:18 pm

With 4 firecrackers and 3 duboisi you might already be doomed for failure regardless of what size tank you keep them in.

When tropheus are kept in small numbers they can very easily become a single fish. You kind of have to keep them in a large colony in order to disperse aggression. There have been people who have successfully kept small groups but it doesn't always work out..

I wouldn't recommend putting them in the 20 gallon but that's just me. If you decide to do it I wouldn't keep them in there for long.

Hopefully all works out for you.
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:02 pm
Location: Centennial, Colorado.

Postby geoff_tropheus » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:13 pm

The "firecracker" term is typical used to describe Tropheus moorii "Moliro"

All in all you do have 7 fish. Since the Duboisi still have the spots, I am going to take a guess that all 7 Tropheus are juvinile and less about 2.5" and are more likely in the 1-2" range.

These 7 fish will be ok in a 20 Long, with a Aqua Clear 110 powerfilter, and weekly waterchanges of 50%. But..you need to be planning on putting them into atleast a 55 gallon within 1-3 months.

Keeping Moliro's and Duboisi together is absolutley no problem in terms of interbreeding. When the fish start getting their adult coloration and start reaching a size of 3" or more, I would do everything possible to try and make the Duboisi total 8-10 fish, and the moliro's atleast 12 fish.

This will make your group size eventually be 20-22 fish, which will require atleast a 75 gallon in the future. I would plan to have a 75 gallon within 14 months.

If you choose not to expand this group, when the fish start getting to over 3" your going to have a problem with agression if the group contains more than one male for each of the two types. They will kill each other. You might get lucky, and have only 1 male in each, or get really bad luck and have all males. You will not be able to really sex them for certain till about 3.5"

I am not sure what your local fish store has for selction or price of the Tropheus you have now, but you can check out the retailers section and find a supply of Duboisi or Moliro rather quickly, and even with shipping will more likely beat a LFS store price, unless he was supplied by a local breeder.

Tropheus are expensive, but with online retailers, and breeders in forums like this that might have shipping availible, you can purchase them at a much reduced cost. So, dont be discouraged by pricing.

Check out your local paper or Craigslist and you could find a 75 gallon really cheap.

For filtration on the the tank, I would go with (2) Aqua Clear 110's and that would be your cheapest filtering choice. Clean one filter one month, then the next month clean the other one, and still perform your weekly waterchange.

Before you start all of this really, what was the issue for why your wanting to remove the Tropheus from the Peacocks 60 gallon?

If it is a diet concern, dont be concerned about that. There are some really good foods that both Peacocks and Tropheus can thrive on given proper acclimation for the Tropheus.

Is it agression, or something else?
300G Petrochromis Trewavasae & Tropheus Lunangwa
300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color & Tropheus Kambwimba
180G Karilani Island Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
180G Ikola
150G mpimbwe Red Cheek
150G brichardi Ujiji
115G annectens Kekese
geoff_tropheus
 
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:01 pm
Location: Pasadena, Texas

Postby Nixxed77 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:44 pm

I would love to keep my peacocks and my troph's together. I love them both equally and cant decide on which one to go with so i figured seperate tanks for both.

As a mentioned in a previous post i currently have a 60long. In it i as of now have about 20 peacocks and the above mentioned troph's. My filtration is a xp3 with bio media only, and 2 110's with double pads. I currently change about 10gal of water every 5-7 days. I feed them hikari pellets, LFS sinking pellets, spirulina flake called aquatrol (the lfs guy said it was a very good flake).

Unfortunately i have more bad news, i know part of it is my fault but dammit LFS should give better advise to younger people trying build a thriving aquarium. 8 of the peacocks i purchased in december consisted of 5 cute little ones called "giraffe" cichlids and 3 other very nice colored little cichlids i now believe are fusco cichlids. I am going to try and take pictures of them to get a positive ID on them. After doing some research online i found out these fish will get between 10-12' and in the wild EAT cichlid's.

Im really discouraged at this point but i want to make this tank work. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If i can keep the peacocks and trophs together maybe a plan of how to do that would be awesome.
Nixxed77
 
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:28 am

Postby geoff_tropheus » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:27 pm

If you already have 20 peacocks in the 60 gallon, I would go ahead and get another fish tank for the Tropheus.

I would also up the waterchange to about 20 gallons each week (33%).

You have plenty of filtration on tha 60 gallon which is very good. I would mimic the same amount and go ahead and get the 75 gallon for Tropheus, or even put your peacocks in the 75 gallon, and then use your 60 gallon for the Tropheus. Its up to you.
300G Petrochromis Trewavasae & Tropheus Lunangwa
300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color & Tropheus Kambwimba
180G Karilani Island Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
180G Ikola
150G mpimbwe Red Cheek
150G brichardi Ujiji
115G annectens Kekese
geoff_tropheus
 
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:01 pm
Location: Pasadena, Texas

Postby Nixxed77 » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:30 pm

Well im in the works of getting a new tank, hopefully a 60-125 gallon tank. I was hoping to do one tank as a hap/peacock mix and the other with trophs.

What are my options in the 60 for trophs, and what are the options in lets say something larger like a 85-125. Do i have to have 12 species specific trophs only. In a larger tank can i do two different species if so what ratio's do i need? Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.
Nixxed77
 
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:28 am

Postby geoff_tropheus » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:30 am

Is the 60 gallon you’re keeping the same as a 55 SHOW?

I would keep a single variant of 12-14 fish of a moorii or duboisi type. Stay away from brichardi, annectens, and mpimbwe in a tank of this size. Groups of those fish need at least 25 in number to be safe, which would take a 125 gallon 6ft tank.

If your limited by a 4ft wall space, I would go with a 140 gallon 4ft x 2ft x 30in tall, or the 120 gallon 4ft x 2ft x 2ft, and these would work in a group size. BUT I still think it would be best to have 6ft tank for the more aggressive types.

Ratios Needed:
Duboisi - 1:1, but 1:2 is best
Moorii - 1:2 The lower amount of males will increase breeding, but harmony remains same
Kasabae - 1:2 same as moorii
Brichardi - 1:5 minimum, 1:7 is best
Annectens - same as brichardi* - *try to minimize the number of males period in this group.
Poli - same as brichardi

You have got to be careful anytime you mix more than one Tropheus type. Duboisi, I have seen are completely safe to mix with other Non-Duboisi Tropheus types. The others have some to A LOT of risk if you mix them to create hybrids.

I have kept the 3-Variants of Tropheus in my 180 gallon for 7 years now and not one Hybrid Fish has ever been generated.

If your going to keep (2) Variants together, you need to get a 6ft tank. I would not put (2) variants together in 4ft tanks, its just not safe to do so.

The safest mix is to get a Duboisi type, then pick any other NON-Duboisi type Tropheus you like to have.

Otherwise, get as far apart of location as possible (example: extreme north & extreme south), and as different of color as possible (example: all black vs high color)

Best of luck!

Geoff
300G Petrochromis Trewavasae & Tropheus Lunangwa
300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color & Tropheus Kambwimba
180G Karilani Island Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
180G Ikola
150G mpimbwe Red Cheek
150G brichardi Ujiji
115G annectens Kekese
geoff_tropheus
 
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:01 pm
Location: Pasadena, Texas

Postby Nixxed77 » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:40 pm

Ya i dont think im going to mix then unless i get a 125, i really dont want to create any hybrids thats for sure. My last question is if i do get my hands on a 125, could i transfer my 4 "firecrackers" get 8 more, and also had lets say a colony of 12-14 Ikola kaisers. I ask this because i found a dealer through this website very close to me and i like the way his Ikola Kaisers look.

Ill keep you guys posted on the progress, looking on craigs list twice a day for a bigger tank right now.
Nixxed77
 
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:28 am


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