Lake Tanganyika Species • Just got a 125 gal for trophs!!

Discussion regarding only Lake Tanganyika species.

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Postby NorthShore » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:53 am

Plants in a tropheus tank? I've tried java fern and anubias. They eventually shred both and they were supposed to be a plant tropheus didn't eat. They eventually picked them to shreds and the males couldn't stand them in their territory so they would pull them out and move them.
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Postby stslimited84 » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:56 am

lol, i know that it prob wont work, but I was hoping to find some sort of plant that would. I just like the looks of the plants.
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Postby NorthShore » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:28 pm

You can get silk plants for aquariums that look actually really good.....
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Postby IrkedCitizen » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:31 pm

NorthShore wrote:You can get silk plants for aquariums that look actually really good.....


I have heard tropheus will eat silk plants though?

Also for the sand if you haven't already bought some. Pool filter sand is just silica sand but in 20 grade. You can pick up 100lb bags of it from a sand blasting supply store for like 10-12$. Just grab your yellow pages and flip to sandblasting supplies and start calling the places closest to you and ask them how much their silica sand is. Just to let you know the larger the number the finer the grade. 20 grade is a good size.

:thumb:
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Postby NorthShore » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:42 pm

They very well might eat the silk plants if algae is allowed to grow on them...That's how they destroyed anubias in my tanks. They scraped the algae off the leaves and slowly shredded the leaves.
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Postby geoff_tropheus » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:09 am

They will do it to plastic plants too. :lol:
300G Petrochromis Trewavasae & Tropheus Lunangwa
300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color & Tropheus Kambwimba
180G Karilani Island Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
180G Ikola
150G mpimbwe Red Cheek
150G brichardi Ujiji
115G annectens Kekese
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Postby stslimited84 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:33 am

Here's a question about the filtration for the tank. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my tank is not drilled.

Is this a viable/good option to use, instead of going with two canisters?

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/213844/product.web

Thoughts? 8)
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Postby IrkedCitizen » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:58 am

Whether to use a wet/dry sump or two canister filters is completely up to you. Which one is better will always be debated.

Wet/dry filters have more pros then cons in my opinion. They add more water volume to the tank which is always a good thing. They can house A LOT of biological media for the beneficial bacteria versus other types of filters. You can hide your heaters in it to get them out of the display tank. That is just to name some of the pros. A con that you hear people talking about a lot is "oh they can fail and flood your house" surely that is true but if you took the needed precautions while setting up and designing your sump and plumbing that can be completely avoided. Another is that they aren't the best at mechanical filtration such as polishing and removing floating particulates out of the water. This is overcome by having more filtration like HOB's or canisters.

Just because you are using a wet/dry sump doesn't mean you can't use your canister filters that you already have. You can load the canister filters to handle the mechanical filtration and have the sump handle the biological. You can sell one or both of your canister filters to finance yout wet/dry sump build/purchase.


As far as the Marineland tidepool SOS HOB overflow it is a viable/good option to direct the water into a wet/dry sump. I have one and know some other people that do as well. However, if you are handy and don't want to spend the money on a prefabricated HOB overflow you can easily make one yourself. Construction of choice can be anything from PVC pipe to making your own out of acrylic. It's completely up to you.

Hope that helps. :thumb:
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Postby stslimited84 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:06 am

IrkedCitizen wrote:Whether to use a wet/dry sump or two canister filters is completely up to you. Which one is better will always be debated.

Wet/dry filters have more pros then cons in my opinion. They add more water volume to the tank which is always a good thing. They can house A LOT of biological media for the beneficial bacteria versus other types of filters. You can hide your heaters in it to get them out of the display tank. That is just to name some of the pros. A con that you hear people talking about a lot is "oh they can fail and flood your house" surely that is true but if you took the needed precautions while setting up and designing your sump and plumbing that can be completely avoided. Another is that they aren't the best at mechanical filtration such as polishing and removing floating particulates out of the water. This is overcome by having more filtration like HOB's or canisters.

Just because you are using a wet/dry sump doesn't mean you can't use your canister filters that you already have. You can load the canister filters to handle the mechanical filtration and have the sump handle the biological. You can sell one or both of your canister filters to finance yout wet/dry sump build/purchase.


As far as the Marineland tidepool SOS HOB overflow it is a viable/good option to direct the water into a wet/dry sump. I have one and know some other people that do as well. However, if you are handy and don't want to spend the money on a prefabricated HOB overflow you can easily make one yourself. Construction of choice can be anything from PVC pipe to making your own out of acrylic. It's completely up to you.

Hope that helps. :thumb:


Thanks for your response :)

I wanted to do a wet/dry with a sump, but my tank isnt drilled, and I have read some posts on this forum that suggest using hang on the back overflows are sometimes a bad idea.

That is my reason for posting. Are they more likely to flood the house for some given reason? I'd really like to do the sump b/c then I dont have to worry about concealing equipment in the background I'm going to make.
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Postby IrkedCitizen » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:35 am

Here are the two causes that will cause a flood when using a wet/dry.

1. Power outage/pump failure:

Has everything to do with where your return lines from the sump are in the tank. If you have it going to the top and pouring into the tank above the waterline you have no problems. But if you have it below the waterline like most of use have to get rid of the noise that is where the problem happens. When the power goes off or the pump mechanically fails the return line will be under water which would then create an instant siphon thus draining the water from the display tank into the wet/dry and spilling over the top.

How you fix that from happening is have the return line barely under the surface of the water so when the power goes out the water drained from the tank will be contained within the sump without spilling over the top. You just have to make sure your sump has enough space for the added water. When the power comes back on the tank will fill back up and everything will be running how it should. Simple enough.

You can also install water check valves into the return line that if the power went out the gate would close within the check valve and stop the flow of water from the tank into the sump. However check valves have been known to fail and people have come home to flooded rooms.

2. Loss of prime in the HOB overflow:

This happens when the water within the tube that drains the water from the part of the overflow that is inside the the tank to the outside part of the overflow that directs the water to the wet/dry exits the tube. This can be caused by air bubbles inside the priming tube. How this floods the room is that the water will stop draining out of the tank and into the sump but the return pump keeps pumping which makes the water in the tank rise until it spills out over the top. This also causes the pump to run dry which damages the pump leading to it needing to be replaced. This scenario is only valid with HOB overflows as built-in or ported overflows do not have this problem.

The fix is either putting a piece of airline tubing inside of the Priming U-tube and connect it to a venturi on powerhead or some other kind of pump. This keeps the air out of the top of the tube that can break the prime. Another way is to get an air check valve or whatever they are called and drill a hole the size of the valve into the U-tube. How it works is that the air will leave through the valve and the water will not.


So as you can see these two things are easily avoided when you take the needed precautions. :thumb:
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Postby geoff_tropheus » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:48 am

What an awesome explanation...thanks..

Geoff
300G Petrochromis Trewavasae & Tropheus Lunangwa
300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color & Tropheus Kambwimba
180G Karilani Island Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
180G Ikola
150G mpimbwe Red Cheek
150G brichardi Ujiji
115G annectens Kekese
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Postby stslimited84 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:34 pm

IrkedCitizen wrote:Here are the two causes that will cause a flood when using a wet/dry.


2. Loss of prime in the HOB overflow:

This happens when the water within the tube that drains the water from the part of the overflow that is inside the the tank to the outside part of the overflow that directs the water to the wet/dry exits the tube. This can be caused by air bubbles inside the priming tube. How this floods the room is that the water will stop draining out of the tank and into the sump but the return pump keeps pumping which makes the water in the tank rise until it spills out over the top. This also causes the pump to run dry which damages the pump leading to it needing to be replaced. This scenario is only valid with HOB overflows as built-in or ported overflows do not have this problem.

The fix is either putting a piece of airline tubing inside of the Priming U-tube and connect it to a venturi on powerhead or some other kind of pump. This keeps the air out of the top of the tube that can break the prime. Another way is to get an air check valve or whatever they are called and drill a hole the size of the valve into the U-tube. How it works is that the air will leave through the valve and the water will not.


So as you can see these two things are easily avoided when you take the needed precautions. :thumb:


This is what I would need to do, but I'm not familiar with what a venturi does so advice on that would be very helpful.

Or is it just better to skip this altogether and go with canisters? The idea of a wet/dry and sump is very cool tho.
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Postby geoff_tropheus » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:47 pm

When making your decision, dont forget that wet/dry's can be noisy for all the flow down the hoses. It tends to make gurgling noises. There is things you can do to try to make them less noisy.

So, depending on where your aquarium is going to be placed, you might need to think about that.

Canisters will be quiet, they will be extremely quiet if you get Eheim. Your FX5 is about the same noise level as a Eheim 2260/2262. Your XP3 will be quiet.

Hope this helps..
300G Petrochromis Trewavasae & Tropheus Lunangwa
300G Petrochromis Orthognathus Tri-Color & Tropheus Kambwimba
180G Karilani Island Duboisi & Rutunga & Katoto
180G Ikola
150G mpimbwe Red Cheek
150G brichardi Ujiji
115G annectens Kekese
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Postby IrkedCitizen » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:21 pm

geoff_tropheus wrote:What an awesome explanation...thanks..

Geoff


Not a problem. This young dog knows a thing or two. :thumb:

stslimited84 wrote:This is what I would need to do, but I'm not familiar with what a venturi does so advice on that would be very helpful.

Or is it just better to skip this altogether and go with canisters? The idea of a wet/dry and sump is very cool tho.


I got your pm as well but had things I needed to do and since you posted in here I figured I would respond here.

Most powerheads you can buy come with a venturi feature. How a venturi works is the flow of water through the powerhead or even a piece of tubing creates suctions on the airline tubing connected to it that sucks air and/or water through the airline tubing. If you have the venturi hooked up and the end of the airline tubing outside of the water it will suck air and create bubbles thus working like an air pump with an air stone but working off of one unit that also creates flow/current at the same time. If you have the airline tubing inside of the U-tube of the HOB overflow it will suck out any air that might accumulate and when there is no air it'll just suck water through the line. I was going to take a picture but I am tired and don't want to mess with it right now.

Just for the record a wet/dry is a sump what makes it "wet/dry" is the media is not submerged it just has the water flowing over the top of it. Makes for great aeration of the water.

If you want to avoid a wet/dry sump and just have canisters then by all means go for it. It is all personal preference.


geoff_tropheus wrote:When making your decision, dont forget that wet/dry's can be noisy for all the flow down the hoses. It tends to make gurgling noises. There is things you can do to try to make them less noisy.

So, depending on where your aquarium is going to be placed, you might need to think about that.


Yes there are ways around the noise that have been documented in the DIY forums and other places on this website but I'll give a breakdown. You can have a wet/dry that is just as quiet as a canister filter.

If he buys that Tidepool SOS overflow it has a mechanism that you fine tune that removes the flushing/gurgling sound to make them virtually silent. If you have a PVC overflow or even a durso standpipe/stockman mod you have to angle the pipe so it isn't running vertical. When the pipe is vertical it makes the gurgling/flushing sound because the air that is trying to escape out the top hits the water that is falling down and creates a vortex, once the air gets passed the water the water then instantly fills that void where the air was and creates the flushing noise. By angling the drain pipe it will allow the water to flow down one side of the pipe while the air escapes over the top of the water.

Another thing that causes the noise is if when using flex tubing as the drain line and it has a sag in it making the water have to rise up from a downward position this is usually where the gurgle comes from. You fix that by taking the sag out of the line.

Other noise is caused where the hose delivers the water to the media chamber. This can be dampened by making the water drop a lesser distance before hitting the media. You should also have the media trays a little bit under the waterline in the wet/dry sump to avoid the water creating a splashing noise from the water leaving the trays.

It is not that hard to make them have little to no noise. :thumb:
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Postby eklikewhoa » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:38 am

I would look into something other then the tidepool, something with the original looking u-tube.

With flooding....adding to the above posts.

If set up properly then there is no way in #%$& it will happen.


Now, I have had a wet/dry on one of my tanks for over 14yrs now and through all the natural disasters we have had here in south texas, all the power outages and what nots there has never been a single time where the overflow lost siphon(which is almost impossible if set up right caust both boxes are filled with water on both ends of the u-tube which keeps the siphon). The only way something like this could happen is if you did not set up your filter right and the water level in the tank fell below the bottom most area of the box and it broke apart.

Another way this could happen is if the u-tube was pulled out of the overflow box which would physically break siphon.

With overflowing the sump area you would have to had set the overflow box too low in the tank which would cause it to continue to overflow past the sumps capacity in event of a poweroutage, have too much water in the sump area which would not leave enough room for the amount of water that will overflow in the event of a power outage or you have a pump failure/power outage and there is no siphon break hole drilled right below the normal water level on the output which would induce siphon in the event of a power outage.


IMO the benefits you get from a wet/dry far surpasses that of any canister!

Also with the noise there are ways around it like with a durso or standman pipe which makes the noise obsolete! I half @$$ed one myself and it killed the noise by almost 80%.
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