Illness, Health & Nutrition • severum swollen belly

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severum swollen belly

Postby Curly » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:13 pm

Hi, seen this talked about many times, my turn.. If a fish has a swollen belly how do you tell if its a infection or eggs? The severum age, if he is the older one maybe 20, younger one 6-10, getting them mixed up, I think the older one has the swollen belly. Anyhow, he/she has a very swollen belly, how do you tell if its eggs or infection, etc? He seems fine, moves/swims fine.. not sure how much he/she is eating. How do you tell if he has an infection or something? Hes in a 130g tank, If I move him to a 30g he might freak, but then again not sure how it would act.
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Postby triscuit » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:52 pm

When you say 20, what do you mean? He's 20 months or years old?

Watch for eating and pooping. If the fish is pooping, the chances of infection are small. If they are spitting food (trying to eat, but spitting it back out) then you might have a problem.

Post a picture if you can...
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Postby Curly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:43 pm

sorry, have not been oline. 20 mean years old.. I dont see it eat, but maybe it is. My water clouded up... see if i can figuer out how to post pict
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Postby Curly » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:47 pm

Image
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Postby triscuit » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:06 am

Wow- that's an old fish. Unfortunately, that doesn't look gravid to me, looks ill.

Cloudy water can be a sign of a nutrient imbalance, and should be addressed with a series of water changes, which will also help fix any disease issue. I'd stop feeding for now, and add Epsom salt (dissolved, 1 TBS per 5 gallons) to work as a laxative in case this is an intestinal blockage.
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Postby Curly » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:59 am

The water is changed about 140% per-month. That is about the best way to handle the large fish, that I found. He's in a 130g tank, I have it setup to change 3g 2x per day. Should I do a 20-40% change, how often?. Sometime is clouds up when feeding or water changes..
Worried about taking him out of the tank and treating in a smaller tank, some fish freak out in smaller tanks.. Might treat him in the large tank. Any other ideas what I might treat with, maybe melafix or pimafix?
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Postby Curly » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:09 am

how do you tell if its a parasite or not, wounder if I should treat for a parasite?

How long or how many times would you treat with Epson salt?
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Postby triscuit » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:41 am

The autochange systems are great, but the exchange rate isn't as high as you think it is because of dilution. In four weeks of changing out 5% a day, you are only replacing about 75% of the water in the tank. If instead you were to do weekly water changes of 35%, you would change out 82%. It's a matter of dilution, and I can show you the math if you are interested. Basically, when you do water change #2, you have 124 gallons of "old" water plus 6 gallons of "new" water. So, you take 5% of (124 +6), you still have 117 gallons of old water. And in the mean time, the new water is getting old.

This doesn't automatically mean your system isn't just fine, only that it's not as efficient as you may think. The best way to judge if 5% a day is sufficient is to measure nitrate- if it's less than 20 ppm, then your system is working well.

But, with sick fish, a larger than normal water change is almost always helpful when the water parameters are well matched (pH, temp, hardness). Whether we're dealing with a parasite or other infection, or an obstructed bowel, Epsom and water changes will help. Go ahead and get a nitrate measurement first, then change out 50% of the water. Make sure to match the tap to the tank water when refilling. Epsom should be added over a couple of hours to reduce the chance of shock, and the 1TBS/5 gal concentration should be maintained until the fish is looking better. That means you'll need to add 1 TBS per day to compensate for the autochanged water.

Parasite? Maybe- have you added any new fish to the tank? What else is in the tank? What do you feed the fish? The age of your fish makes it more difficult to diagnose- it may just be that fish's time but we can try a few things to see if we can help.

A note on measuring nitrate- the drops and test tube kits work well, if the instructions are followed exactly. You need to shake the living fins outta the bottles and the test tube for longer than you think necessary. After adding both reagents and shaking till your teeth rattle, let the test tube sit for 5 minutes before using the color chart.
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Postby Curly » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:38 pm

Hi, yes I would like to see your math on the diluting thing. Sounds like I am not changing it as much as I thought. I need to increase the amount by a 2-4g per day.

Tank has all older fish and basically shut off, unless one dies. I took in – adopted a peco that out grew the previous owners tank. That was 3-6 yrs ago. After your fish get older it's hard to remember actually how old some of them are. Tanks has severums, pecos, silver dollars, clown loachs, urau (not sure I am abbreviating him right)

I have them on epson salt, Primfix, and put in a parasite medication. Right now the fish are acting slower and not hungry looking. I am going to a 25% water, re-med parasite medication one more day and continual on with prifix for a week, and keep them on epson salt until he start going to bathroom. I hope it is not to much.

The swollen belly fish, I am starting to think is constipated, not sure yet. His anus or what ever you call it pooper looks like it is protruding outward? If that is what it is, is there any other way to help him have a bowl movement?
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Postby Curly » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:41 pm

so far he is not looking good. He looks like things are going down hill for him.... His belly, I sware, hard to tell, is growing ever time I look at him. I have not feed them in 4 days, going to give them greens and stuff for bottom feeders today. He right now is hovering above a rock and not moving much.. something is protruding from his lower part, not sure what it is.
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Postby triscuit » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:37 pm

Sorry to hear that. :( Sometimes we can't help our fish as much as we'd wish.

It sounds like he's suffering from septicemia or a bowel obstruction. You can try an antibiotic, but that's going to be an expensive undertaking for the big tank, and a transition to the smaller tank could cause too much stress for the fish to overcome. With a fish this large and this old, I'm afraid I don't have better advice for you.



Here's an example of the math:

Image

Starting with your total tank volume, and changing 5% of that every day. On the first day, you have 130 gallons of old water- you replace 6.5 gallons, leaving 123.5 gallons of old water. On day 2, you also replace 6.5 gallons, but a small percentage of that is actually pulling out yesterday's new water. By the end of the week, you still have about 95 gallons of the same water you started with, meaning only 30% is changed out in seven days, not 35%. Make sense?

In order to actually change out 100% of the water over the course of a month, you would replace 10% a day. Less frequent, larger water changes are much more economical than the small daily changes. Feel free to PM me with your email address if you'd like the Excel spreadsheet I'm using to calculate.

But, I'll reiterate that you'll need to measure nitrate to know if your current WCs are just fine- you may not need to increase the volume.
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Postby Curly » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:00 pm

Thanks for your help. He is still alive and not looking good. He is swiming with his bottom in the air and head down, he does not really swim around just hovers and does not eat. It does look to be some sort of obstruction. He is one of my more frendly pets, he would let me hand feed, touch, & rub him.. wish I could help him.. still looks in good health besides the obstruction. thanks for help..

triscuit wrote:Sorry to hear that. :( Sometimes we can't help our fish as much as we'd wish.

It sounds like he's suffering from septicemia or a bowel obstruction. You can try an antibiotic, but that's going to be an expensive undertaking for the big tank, and a transition to the smaller tank could cause too much stress for the fish to overcome. With a fish this large and this old, I'm afraid I don't have better advice for you.



Here's an example of the math:

Image

Starting with your total tank volume, and changing 5% of that every day. On the first day, you have 130 gallons of old water- you replace 6.5 gallons, leaving 123.5 gallons of old water. On day 2, you also replace 6.5 gallons, but a small percentage of that is actually pulling out yesterday's new water. By the end of the week, you still have about 95 gallons of the same water you started with, meaning only 30% is changed out in seven days, not 35%. Make sense?

In order to actually change out 100% of the water over the course of a month, you would replace 10% a day. Less frequent, larger water changes are much more economical than the small daily changes. Feel free to PM me with your email address if you'd like the Excel spreadsheet I'm using to calculate.

But, I'll reiterate that you'll need to measure nitrate to know if your current WCs are just fine- you may not need to increase the volume.
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