South American Cichlids • Angel Fish Missing Ventral

Discussion regarding only South American Cichlid species. (Oscars, Geophagines, Discus, Apistogramma, Green Terrors, Angels, Severums, Pikes, etc.)

Moderators: notho2000, Iggy Newcastle

Angel Fish Missing Ventral

Postby Malawi Mac » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:08 pm

I went to a local aquarium society's annual show and auction yesterday. I arrived late and didn't have time to examine the bags of fish as thoroughly as I would have liked.

At any rate, I bought one bag of fish containing two large angel fish (approximatly pool ball size). At that time, examination of the new purchase revealed that one of the two fish only has stubs where the ventral appendages (I don't know if you call them "fins" on an angel fish) should be. The edges of the stubs are jagged, suggesting to me that the fish was a victim of an aggressive tank mate as opposed to any sort of genetic defect.

Although it seems highly likely that the seller knew he had put a damaged fish up for auction, I elected not to raise a stink over the matter and simply brought the fish home along with four other angels I bought of a comparable size. At present the six fish are in a 29-gallon isolation tank with an eventual destination of my 75-gallon planted tank. The tank already contains three angels, four Bosemani rainbows, a school of Congo tetras, a large Bala shark, and a few other miscellaneous fish (black ghost knife, clown pleco, and striped Raphael cat).

Questions:

1. Should I have raised a stink about the condition of the fish prior to leaving the auction?

2. Will these appendages grow back?

3. If so, is there anything I can do to accelerate the re-growth? I have plenty of available growout tanks, so it would be no problem at all to keep the fish in a tank by itself for as long as is necessary.

4. If I keep the fish in an isolation tank, should I also keep the fish that was sold with him as a companion?
JOHNNY MAC
135 - Male Haps & Peacocks
92 corner - Australia/New Guinea Rainbows
75 - juvenile mbuna
55A - Male Hap/Peacock growout
55B - 17 adult mbuna
55O - 16 adult mbuna
40 - colony albino Eureka peacocks
29 - community fish
Malawi Mac
 
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:25 pm
Location: Madison County, Illinois

Share On:

Share on Facebook Facebook Share on Twitter Twitter

Postby cichlidaholic » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:28 am

1) I wouldn't have...That's the thing about purchasing fish without seeing them first.

2) They should, if they weren't taken off all the way into the body.

3) Daily water changes and Melafix will aid in healing and regeneration. I don't see any need in keeping the fish isolated any longer than your normal QT period, unless you see signs of bacterial infection.

4) It's up to you. Do you mean because they are a pair, or because you're afraid they have fin rot or something like that? Introducing all those angelfish to each other may culminate in them choosing different mates, anyway.

Kim
110G - Perspicax Red Top Ndumbi, Demasoni, Yellow labs, Metriaclima Callainos

Check out the blog on the home page if you haven't already!!!
User avatar
cichlidaholic
 
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:48 pm
Location: Western Kentucky

Postby Malawi Mac » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:54 am

cichlidaholic wrote:1) I wouldn't have...That's the thing about purchasing fish without seeing them first.

2) They should, if they weren't taken off all the way into the body.

3) Daily water changes and Melafix will aid in healing and regeneration. I don't see any need in keeping the fish isolated any longer than your normal QT period, unless you see signs of bacterial infection.

4) It's up to you. Do you mean because they are a pair, or because you're afraid they have fin rot or something like that? Introducing all those angelfish to each other may culminate in them choosing different mates, anyway.

Kim


2. There's probably about 1 cm left on each ventral.

3. The reason I would consider keeping the fish in an isolation tank is for its own protection. It seems to me that an angel uses the ventral appendages to keep itself balanced in the water. Presently, it is not having any trouble doing that. But the only companions in the isolation tank are other angels. It might be another matter if it is forced into constant motion to stay out of the path of the four large Bosemani rainbows or the school of Congo tetras that are already in the destination tank..

4. The fish were sold as a pair. However, I note that the seller did not claim that they are a mated pair. So I assume that the seller never bred them, but otherwise knows them to be a male and female. (I have no idea which is which.)

Thanks for your time.
JOHNNY MAC
135 - Male Haps & Peacocks
92 corner - Australia/New Guinea Rainbows
75 - juvenile mbuna
55A - Male Hap/Peacock growout
55B - 17 adult mbuna
55O - 16 adult mbuna
40 - colony albino Eureka peacocks
29 - community fish
Malawi Mac
 
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:25 pm
Location: Madison County, Illinois

Postby cichlidaholic » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:17 pm

I'm not sure how long it will take for the ventrals to grow back out. I'm also not sure it would be a problem for the angelfish to put it in the main tank.

But, it would certainly be easier to facilitate the healing process if you kept this one in a smaller tank of it's own and did daily water changes plus Melafix. :thumb:

Just out of curiousity, were they bagged together? If so, I would consider that a bad practice for someone to sell them that way at an auction, where they could easily wind up in the bag for hours and could surely do this kind of damage to each other!

Kim
110G - Perspicax Red Top Ndumbi, Demasoni, Yellow labs, Metriaclima Callainos

Check out the blog on the home page if you haven't already!!!
User avatar
cichlidaholic
 
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:48 pm
Location: Western Kentucky

Postby apistomaster » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:41 pm

The stub fin angel should at least partially regenerate it's short pelvic fins but I doubt the fins will ever grow back to their normal length and possibly shape. But you never know. I had a wild blue discus come in with severe fin rot and it's pelvic fins were barely stubs. I doubted it was even going to live so emaciated it was but it recovered completely and now look at its pelvic fins. I would not have thought it was possible. Notice this pairs eggs on the slate behind.
Image
Larry Waybright
One year old, tank bred Plecos currently available
Leopard Frog Plecos(L134)
Queen Tiger Plecos (Hypancistrus sp.(L333)
apistomaster
 
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:54 pm
Location: Clarkston, WA 99403

Postby Malawi Mac » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:49 am

cichlidaholic wrote:Just out of curiousity, were they bagged together? If so, I would consider that a bad practice for someone to sell them that way at an auction, where they could easily wind up in the bag for hours and could surely do this kind of damage to each other!

Kim


Yeah, they were bagged together. I bought a total of six angels at the auction in four lots. The other two-fish lot also had the fish bagged together, but this breeder used double-wide bags.

I am amazed sometimes at the lousy bagging jobs I see sometimes at fish auctions. One breeder brought two harems (M,3F) of sunshine peacocks to the auction. The fish were large enough that the males were coloring up. Yet each of the two harems was bagged in a bag that was no bigger than a quart or so, and neither bag had much air in it. Midway through the auction I noticed one of the females in one of the bags going belly-up.
JOHNNY MAC
135 - Male Haps & Peacocks
92 corner - Australia/New Guinea Rainbows
75 - juvenile mbuna
55A - Male Hap/Peacock growout
55B - 17 adult mbuna
55O - 16 adult mbuna
40 - colony albino Eureka peacocks
29 - community fish
Malawi Mac
 
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:25 pm
Location: Madison County, Illinois

Postby cichlidaholic » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:22 am

I absolutely hate the way people bag fish. If I'm bagging fish that are old enough to be breeding age, they are going in seperate bags. I do this because I don't want them to kill each other before I get where I'm going with them. (If they can't get along in a 55G tank, odds are they can't get along in 1/2 gallon of water! :thumb: )

It's one thing to put juvies together in a bag, but adults??? Give me a break...

Hope things work out with your angelfish! I think it will be fine.

Kim
110G - Perspicax Red Top Ndumbi, Demasoni, Yellow labs, Metriaclima Callainos

Check out the blog on the home page if you haven't already!!!
User avatar
cichlidaholic
 
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:48 pm
Location: Western Kentucky

Postby Munky » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:32 am

Going back a few posts i don't think it will grow back as i had a similar prob 3 months ago. The fish is healthy and happy but his new name is stumpy!
User avatar
Munky
 
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: Yorkshire, England

Postby Malawi Mac » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:35 pm

cichlidaholic wrote:1)
3) Daily water changes and Melafix will aid in healing and regeneration. I don't see any need in keeping the fish isolated any longer than your normal QT period, unless you see signs of bacterial infection.



Kim


Will Melafix interfere with a biological filter? The label really doesn't say.
JOHNNY MAC
135 - Male Haps & Peacocks
92 corner - Australia/New Guinea Rainbows
75 - juvenile mbuna
55A - Male Hap/Peacock growout
55B - 17 adult mbuna
55O - 16 adult mbuna
40 - colony albino Eureka peacocks
29 - community fish
Malawi Mac
 
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:25 pm
Location: Madison County, Illinois

Postby cichlidaholic » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:23 am

I've never had a problem with it, but most of the time when I've used it, I'm doing daily water changes anyway - especially if I'm treating an injury or something like that, so this will keep your water in check.

One thing...I've heard of people using Melafix on fry tanks with ill effects (loss of fry), however, I've used it on holding moms without any problems whatsoever, so I'm not sure if there was any correlation between the fry loss and Melafix use. I suspect it might have to do with water quality in some of the cases.

Kim
110G - Perspicax Red Top Ndumbi, Demasoni, Yellow labs, Metriaclima Callainos

Check out the blog on the home page if you haven't already!!!
User avatar
cichlidaholic
 
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:48 pm
Location: Western Kentucky


Return to South American Cichlids

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests