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300 gallon tank mates

8K views 50 replies 8 participants last post by  infoleather 
#1 ·
hi all im trying to decided on what to stock in my 300 gallon tank that i will be building soon. the tank will measure 72" long 36" wide and have a water height of 27" for a grand total of around 280 gallons but with sump it will be around 300. i am planing about 4x turnover rate, using PFS and drift wood and some rocks for decoration.

so my initial thoughts are:
a tiger oscar
a few firemouths
a few severums
a few Jack Dempseys
perhaps a few bala sharks

so what do you think of my fish choices? could i keep others? if so what would look cool and work well?

i have been keeping mbanas and peacocks for two years and learned the hard way of what works with them, so i want to do this tank right the first time
 
#27 ·
so with my current stock choice, would it be better to keep the salvini as a single fish? i really like the coloring of it. if i drop one salvini i might add back in the firemouths. i will probably not keep the acei in this tank it was just a though. also for the nics and the sajica since i would be looking at a pair do you start out with 5 or so and remove the others once i get a pair? also im not overly concerned about keeping any fry, i just have read that keeping pairs provided the best coloring for the fish. i will be starting with all juvies. also about how fast do these guys grow? i have heard that the oscar could grow an inch a month how bout the others?

sorry for all the questions i just want this all to work from the get go and not have the same problem i had when i started with africans. which was having lots of incomparable fish because they all looked cool.

last question for now where do you guys get your fish from. my lfs can get pretty much anything i want, but it is nice to see where others get their fish
 
#28 ·
rotccapt said:
so with my current stock choice, would it be better to keep the salvini as a single fish? also for the nics and the sajica since i would be looking at a pair do you start out with 5 or so and remove the others once i get a pair? also about how fast do these guys grow? i have heard that the oscar could grow an inch a month how bout the others?
last question for now where do you guys get your fish from.
question #1. Well, I really don't want to try and convince you not to keep a pair of salvini (or a harem as I most often have done) as i think it is a very worth while fish to keep and breed and a 300 gal. tank is certainly large enough, IMO. But i would be a little leary about rainbows, sajica or even firemouths or nics as tankmates for breeding sals. Then again, I have never stocked these fish with salvinis so I really don't know for sure. My thought is you got to be tough to be in a tank with large adult breeding sals. Though who knows, maybe they would be more tolerant of the less aggressive CA...though I sort of doubt it! IME, a lone female sal is much less aggressive....though make no mistake, still can be a very aggressive fish. IME, a male sal is much more aggressive...though it varies; sometimes there is virtually no difference between a lone male and a breeding male!

question #2. Yes, that is the way to get a pair. Best to start out with 5 or more.

question # 3. Growth can vary considerably.There is no real pattern. Yes, oscars often grow that fast; sometimes faster. Had them grow from tiny juvie, still with a marbled pattern, to 10"+ in 6 months......though in a years time after purchase, they were no larger then oscars often are with in this time frame. Salvini, reasonable to expect males to be 6-8", anywhere from 1-3 years after purchase. Females around 5-6". Had a female salvini that got over 7" and very thick, though not deep bodied like a male, after owning her for 6 years. Rainbows, sajica, firemouths.....expect males to be 5" or so about a year after purchase. Suposedely FM get 7" , though i have never seen any that large. It generally takes some time for FM to reach there larger sizes. Nics ...males can get 9-10" in about 3-4 years time; females considerably smaller. All these sizes are total lengths, including tail rather then standard length which excludes the tail. certainly better water quality by doing frequent large water changes helps growth though it is my beleif, based on the circumstantial evidence of my own experience, that larger tanks grow fish quicker and often a little larger.

question #4. I purchase from the LFS. Even the big box stores have huge variety for CA cichlids compared to what used to be commonly available. But if there is something specific i would want, a quick trip to Calgary will provide a lot more options. A lot of people order cichlids....my brother did in the '80's through the ACA trading post and i ended up with some of his extra fish. Jeff Rapps is a popular source for some less commonly available CA....someday I will probably order something from him.
 
#29 ·
bernie comeau said:
CjCichlid said:
As for the Nics, I feel they are actually very underrated as far as aggression goes. My pair dominates my tank and they can be quite pugnacious at times. I feel the Sajica will be able to hold their own
Well it's all relative...compared to what? A nic would certainly be a very aggressive fish compared to many fishes kept in aqauriums. But compared to many CA cichlids, I would disagree. Of course with the likes of rainbows, firemouths, and some JD..... no doubt a pair of nics might dominate and seem quite aggressive. And very young fish in a tank for a few months .....really can't draw any conclusions from that. The time frame...many years, not a few months. Bottom line, IMO, a nic is not a very aggressive CA .....not even remotely in the same league, as say, something like a trimac.
I was simply stating Nics are often thought to be much more "peaceful" than many are. Each individual fish's temperament varies and in comparison to his listed stock, I think they will have no problem fending for themselves. By no means was I comparing them to something like a Trimac...
 
#30 ·
rotccapt said:
so with my current stock choice, would it be better to keep the salvini as a single fish? i really like the coloring of it. if i drop one salvini i might add back in the firemouths. i will probably not keep the acei in this tank it was just a though. also for the nics and the sajica since i would be looking at a pair do you start out with 5 or so and remove the others once i get a pair? also im not overly concerned about keeping any fry, i just have read that keeping pairs provided the best coloring for the fish. i will be starting with all juvies. also about how fast do these guys grow? i have heard that the oscar could grow an inch a month how bout the others?

sorry for all the questions i just want this all to work from the get go and not have the same problem i had when i started with africans. which was having lots of incomparable fish because they all looked cool.

last question for now where do you guys get your fish from. my lfs can get pretty much anything i want, but it is nice to see where others get their fish
I think a single female Sal would for sure have a better chance of working out than a pair. You should also still get to see the stunning colors as my lone female Sal was always displaying very vibrant coloration. By removing the Africans as well, adding a pair or two of Meeki shouldn't be a problem either.

As far as growth, I feel it depends on the water quality, water temperature and feeding regimen. Oscars are definitely known to be fast growers so I would keep an eye out on your smaller cichlids like the Rainbows. If they are able to fit inside the Oscars mouth, the Oscar may have a go at them.

When purchasing fish I try to stay local but that rarely happens. I only have one LFS that carries decent stock so I usually end up ordering online when I am wanting something a bit out of the norm. I have had good luck with Aquabid as I got my male Nic and multispinosa from there. Just be sure to read through the sellers reviews before ordering as it's basically Ebay for fish. I have also heard nothing but positive things about Jeff Rapps, so I would buy with confidence from him as well...
 
#32 ·
Want about Robertsoni's



I mentioned them before heres other variants of their genus

http://cichlidconnection.com/index.php?p=1_9_Astatheros

they are beautiful and a little tougher than nics, rainbows, and choco. They are a really well colored fish and about a firemouths size.
 
#33 ·
bernie comeau said:
CjCichlid said:
I was simply stating Nics are often thought to be much more "peaceful" than many are. Each individual fish's temperament varies and in comparison to his listed stock, I think they will have no problem fending for themselves. By no means was I comparing them to something like a Trimac...
Ahh, I see what you mean. That I can agree with.
Looking at this and thinking about it a little more, and yes in terms of the proposed stock, Nics should have absolutely no problem defending themselves against rainbow cichlids :D
But, IMO, it certainly is possible they could have a problem defending themselves against salvini. And quite possible, though not as likely, they could have a problem defending themselves against a large aggressive oscar. Had nics a couple times for many years and grew a male to large size. In my tanks they were always low in the pecking order and can't even recall anything that they were ever dominant over :-? . I had male and female at times in the same tank, though no chance of claiming space as they were always subordinate to things like oscars, JD and GT, let alone the more dominant fish i had, such as male Texas, male Tilapia mariae and female jag. I do recall them on rare occasion, attempting to stand up to other cichlids.....what i remember of them is they back down quickly and never won a fight. Though I can't say they ever got picked on too much.

Generally, any pair of CA cichlids can be quite aggressive(with the possible exception of some pairs of rainbow cichlids). I've never known nics as a dominant fish, only as a fish low in the pecking order. When I look at Cj cichlids tankhttp://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=237760.........sure they could be aggressive! They are a pair of CA cichlids and are the largest fish in the tank, with small juvies of generally less aggressive species of CA cichlid, as tankmates.
 
#34 ·
I still feel Nics will do just fine with his proposed stock list. He isn't planning to stock any real "heavy hitters" and even if he was, the Nics would still not be my first concern. I have seen many people successfully keep Nics with much larger and aggressive Vieja/Paratheraps species without any problems.

In regards to my tank, there are other cichlids in with the Nics besides multispinosa. Yes, my male Nic is the largest fish in the tank however my female is the same size as my male JD and just a tad bigger than 2 of my Meeki. She is definitely dominant over them and it's not because she has the male to back her up as they are not even a bonded pair...

rotccapt, I feel your proposed stock list has a good chance of working out, especially now that you are only thinking of having a single female Sal and nixed the Africans. It should make for a very interesting and active tank with an assortment of different sizes/colors of cichlids. I would however keep an eye on your Rainbows, as they could be at risk of being picked on. Another note worth mentioning... I have found my Rainbows like to stay towards the mid and upper regions of the water column and really enjoy surface cover. Driftwood and plants near the surface of the water should give them a place to feel comfortable at and retreat to if needed.
 
#35 ·
CjCichlid said:
I still feel Nics will do just fine with his proposed stock list. He isn't planning to stock any real "heavy hitters" and even if he was, the Nics would still not be my first concern. I have seen many people successfully keep Nics with much larger and aggressive Vieja/Paratheraps species without any problems.
I have kept nics, as well, with heavy hitters with out any real problems. Texas, T. mariae and jag....those are definately heavy hitters. But I wouldn't do it again :D I think the fish would do even better with out such aggressive tankmates.

Innitially this discussion on nics aggression/capability was in relation to stocking them with a salvini pair. I would certainly regard a large breeding pair of salvini as a 'heavy hitter'. As far as anything I have ever bred in a cichlid community tank, IME, they are most aggressive and pushy for space....... IME, more so then black belts, convicts, jewels, JD, spilirum , oscars( many times unsuccessfully in the community tank). Nics would not be my choice to stock with breeding sals; rainbows much less so. Could these tankmates work out well.....maybe, possibily (?). I am up for a challange, but I wouldn't try it. IMO, and IME, mbuna is the safe choice compared to other CA.

Now stocking a single female sal with nics in a 300 gal..... yes chances are fairly good for that working out. Rainbows, IMO, are still at risk of getting picked on excessively, at least eventually. Personally, I'd stock them with completely different fish. When I was a teenager, I set up a couple tanks for my oldest sister. The rainbows bred in a 10 gal. with small community fish and claimed no more then a small corner of the tank. When they were moved to a 33 gal.....same thing, they bred, claimed a small corner of the tank and even with fry, where barely aggressive. At the time it was shocking to me :eek: .....I couldn't beleive how unaggressive they were for a breeding CA cichlid!

The OP should decide what sort of level of aggressiveness he/she is looking to stock, and stock accordingly. From my perspective, rainbows with salvini and a tankfull of other CA is 'pushing the envelope' ......might work out well (?) but IMO, is not a safe, begginer thing to try on one's first CA tank.
 
#36 ·
thank you all fo the information.

there are 4 fish i definatly want in the tank. 1 tiger oscar, 1 salvini, 2 nic's, 5 bala shark. other than that i am looking at nice looking colorfull fish to fill in the rest of the tank. so with that in mind what would you sudjest then?

to start out since i will be starting with juvies i am planning on holding off on the oscar and let the others get some size on them a bit then get the oscar.
 
#37 ·
rotccapt said:
1 tiger oscar, 1 salvini, 2 nic's, 5 bala shark. other than that i am looking at nice looking colorfull fish to fill in the rest of the tank. so with that in mind what would you sudjest then?
I'd consider JD, green terror or blue acara. A Cryptoheros species such as convicts or spilirum. Maybe FM. As suggested by mattmean, Astatoheros species might be an option.....though I can't say too much about them as I have no personel experience with any of them. A large CA that is often considered to be not too aggressive: ex"Cichlasoma" pearsi http://www.allfishes.net/photos poissons/photos am centr/paersei.htm ....though again I can't say too much about this species, as I have never kept it.

I think you would be wise to leave the rainbows out.....IME, they get picked on by other CA, and do much better with out CA tankmates.
 
#39 ·
As bernie said, you would honestly probably be better of without the multispinonsa. I also like his suggestion of the Pearsi, it would make for a great centerpiece fish. I had considered one for my tank but feel a 135gal isn't large enough as they do get quite bulky. If the Pearsi interests you, be sure to look into the "red finned" strain, they are awesome looking! Besides Pearsi, if your wanting another pair, I think a pair of any of the Cryptoheros or Thorichthys species would work well. If your wanting another loner, A JD or GT could potentially work like bernie suggested as well...

EDIT... In regards to your most recent post... I would strongly advise you against having both Blue Acara and GTs. I would also storngly suggest that you do not attempt to have a pair of GTs. I feel a pair of BA could work or a lone GT (one or the other). The fact that they are so similar looking makes me believe that conspecific aggression would be very high between the two.
 
#41 ·
Rot, If you are thinking a GT, what about Tomocichla Sieboldii? or a Herichthys Labridens?

They have a lot more mystique than your average GT

If you stay w/ a GT, i'd try a white seam they are little more unique and mine is a lot more personable than other gold ones I've grown over the years.
 
#42 ·
i like the herichthy labriden but i think i am going to stick with the GT. also i love my western painted turtle and i think i have a plan in place to create a nice home for all of them in the tank.

so should i add all of them at once or one species at a time? i am thinking about starting with 5-6 nics and 5-6 firemouths and let them grow up a bit so i can sex them. then i plan on getting rid of the others except the nicest looking female and male and hopefully get a pair out of them.

so i will have two stumps in the tank the large one and a much smaller one that with be catercorner to each other. what should i put for other decoration in the tank? i am thinking a couple rock piles. i would love some live plants but im not sure what all i can keep. i am thinking about trying to get java fern to grow on my drift wood. i have also thought about adding some duck weed. the background with be a diy styro/drylock creation and will look like a layered rock wall with lots of ledges, caves and perhaps a couple tunnels. at the water line i will have one large shelf that will extend into the water that will serve as my backing spot for the turtle
 
#43 ·
I would leave the JD out and go with this:
1x oscar
1x salvini
1x green terror
2x nic
2-4x fire mouth
5x bala

300 gallons is a large aquarium but keep in mind adult sizes and how much space each cichlid/pair is going to require...

Starting with 5-6 juveniles is definitely going to be your best bet to acquire a strongly bonded pair. I've heard Nics can be a bit fussy when pairing up and that was the case with mine. However, I started with two sexual mature adults, which stacked the odds against me. They have been going through all the motions lately but still have not spawned. As for the Meeki, I only started with three and by luck got 1 male and 2 females. All three are around 3in and two have already began to pair off as they are always together and constantly showing interest in one another.

When adding the fish, I would add them in groups. When you add a single fish it directs everyone's attention/aggression on to that particular fish. I would add the 5x Balas, Nics, and Meeki first. I would then wait a week or so and add the Oscar, Sal and GT.

Your aquascaping plans sound good. The two pieces of driftwood you have will look great, and paired with a 3D background should really make for an awesome looking tank! You can try the duckweed, but I have had bad experiences with it. My filters would constantly blow it all around the tank making it look like a snow storm (only with duckweed)! Look into other low maintenance plants such as Anubias, Anacharis and Hornwort (which can be left foating at the surface)...
 
#47 ·
so i have decided to tweak my stock list and i wanted to get your opinions. i am going to ditch the balas and the turtle so:

1 tiger oscar
1 male nic
2 female nic
1 green terror
1 salvini
4 firemouth
2 pictus cats
(1 eb jack) still debating on this guy
 
#49 ·
I don't think there is really a specific size, but by 3in or so you should be able to be able to make out their sex pretty accurately. The easiest way to determine their sex is by looking at their fins. Males will have speckled fins while females will not. They should begin to color up around that size as well...
 
#50 ·
so after some reading im not sure if the oscar will work with my gt i tryed an albino but i think it died from a sever case of ich so we got a little bigger tiger and we saw alot of agression between the gt and the tiger then the next day the tiger was dead. do you think i will have better luck when i transfer them to the 300 gallon tank?

if i cant do the oscar what do you think of this

1 male gt (already have)
1 female gt
1 female nic (already have)
1 male jd (already have)
1 salvani
2-4 firemouth
10-15 giant danios (already have 5)
2 zebra pleco
 
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